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Guest BlueRidgeDx

OUTSTANDING PRODUCT...

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i bought and downloaded the 74F this morning and am more than happy with it. The only thing that i find disturbing is, that my nose and undercarriage wheel is not turning anylonger.I can steer the aircraft and all other animations are working flawlessly, but the forementioned wheels are not going in any direction.Is it just me, or are there others experiencing the same?Best regards and thanks in advanceHolger

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Holger,Are you stationary when you're observing this? The nosewheel will not move without some forward motion, per the real aircraft.

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Hi Ryan,i am positively not stationary, i am moving with 10 to 15 knots and there is no undercarriage animation whatsoever.thanks for the fast reply anyways!Holger

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Hi Robert,also Auto-Coord is definitely off.I should mention, that i am religiously flying the 744 and this very phenomenon appeared after installing the 74F this morning. Everything else works like a charm as far as i can tell after 3 hours testflying 2 different engine models.Amendment: This Problem may be specific for some unknown culprit in my system, i just want to know if this appeared before for some strange reason.BestHolger

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Guest rnj slinger

holger i have the same problem nosewheel is not steering after update to 747frickPent 3.2 1024 htasus p4c800hd 200gb 4 partitionsmaxtor 7200 rpmati 9800pro 256 cat 5.8 ATTools21"IIyama crt19" relisys crtwin xp sp2 CH yoke + pedals+ dell laptop for asv ivae etc

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Rick,at least i am happy i am not the only one, now i hope we will find more of us, so we can probably identify tie source of the problem.By the way, my setup is totally different from yours, except from the ATI 9500 ProBestHolger

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I have not seen this. Here is a screenie of mine a minute ago.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/145241.jpg Must be user specific................Randy J. Smith................A PROUD MEMBER OF THE PMDG BETA TEAM[h4]Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations[/h4]

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> I have not seen this. Here is a screenie of mine a minute>ago.>>http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/145241.jpg>> Must be user specific.>>>...............Randy J. Smith................>A PROUD MEMBER OF THE PMDG BETA TEAM>[h4]Evolution is a process that results in heritable>changes in a population spread over many generations[/h4]>>>More than user-specific, idiotically user-specific.....I had auto-coordination on and was looking at the wrong menu. Would one of the moderators please be so kind to delete this thread?Thanks for a wonderful aircraft, especially sounds now are massively improved!Best to allHolger

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I had exactly the same tiller problem. Then I re-checked my realism settings and Auto-Coordination was actually checked. Now I never check that option, is it possible the 747F installation somehow got at the configuration of FS9?AFAIK in the real 747-400 there is nothing to stop the nosewheel turning when the aircraft is static. It doesn't castor when hyds are on, so as long as you have pressure the actuators will move the wheel. Obviously this is something which should not be done, unless the nosewheel is on a skidplate for maintenance, but I believe it is possible. It certainly is on the 747-200, which has a similar undercarriage system.A minor detail perhaps, but it might actually simplify your model if you removed the inhibition.Kevin

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Nope, the nose wheel will not move on the real bird if it is not in motion. PMDG know because they checked..................Randy J. Smith................A PROUD MEMBER OF THE PMDG BETA TEAM[h4]Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations[/h4]

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Hate to ask, but who did PMDG check with? A 747 pilot might well say you need some forward speed, because that would be good airmanship, preventing tyre damage. However my understanding is that, just like the 747-200, the 747-400 tiller will turn the nosewheel at zero ground speed if the hydraulics are powered.I don't have aircraft data to hand at present, but I found a procedures review for Atlas Air online, where the controls full and free check is conducted after pushback, before taxi. As well as ensuring the tiller is held during the rudder check, there is a note in red to ensure that the tow-bar has been removed as well, so clearly the nosewheel will turn when stationary.The body gear steering on the 747-400 has ground speed in its activation logic, but I know of no such limitation on the nosewheel. Its a fully powered system, not a boosted castoring system as on some smaller aircraft.Kevin

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I am not a 747 engineer but I see why the nose might not turn with zero speed - tremendous friction forces. You may have your hydraulics all powered up and theoretically the nose should move but it won't because the system was not designed to overcome such forces. I don't know why you make a logical deduction from the Atlas Air procedure ther calls for removal of tow-bar that the nose would turn while stationary. I simply see no cause-and-effect in this case. Aircraft manufacturers are known to play very safe when publishing procedures. I would not be so dismissive about PMDG and how they obtained this information - they have access to quite a few real 747 drivers.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

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PMDG aren't perfect though. I'm an engineer who designs real flight simulators, so I know where to look for answers too. Generally not in Operating Manuals if you want the full truth. Maintenance Manuals are a far better source if you can't access manufacturers design data (even that can be wrong!). Last resort, ask a pilot, but don't rely too much on their answers.There is no inhibit on the 744 tiller at zero ground speed provided hydraulic pressure is available. Also there are no tremendous friction forces either. The nosegear has two wheels, so will rotate pretty well about the strut axis with zero speed. The problem comes if someone fails to check if the towbar has been disconnected. Not nice for the ground crews if the tiller is turned with it attached as you can imagine.I don't mean to disparage PMDG, they've done a very good job of the 737NG and 744, and I hope the MD11 is even better. However if you ask pilots, they will often answer in quite a non technical way. They are expert at operating the aircraft, but not necessarily in how it works. Also if you use procedure manuals as design data, you only cover how the aircraft is supposed to be operated, not how it will actually function if mishandled.PMDG is probably the least offender on these type of issues, some other addons with very high reputations have some more obvious errors. Bearing in mind these are games, not training devices, it's more than acceptable in terms of what youget for your buck.CheersKevin

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Guest Matthias1975

>PMDG is probably the least offender on these type of issues,>some other addons with very high reputations have some more>obvious errors. Bearing in mind these are games, not training>devices, it's more than acceptable in terms of what youget for>your buck.>>Cheers>>KevinMy words :-)And I am sure if this should be a real bug it will be solved in the next update :-)

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I'm sure I am not the only one that flys with auto coordination turned on. I like realism to a certain extent, but I prefer using Auto Co-ord checked. I'm not about to turn it off in FS9 just for the nosewheel realism aspect. I hope it is fixed in a future update.Regards,Tom

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Guest JTH

What exactly does auto-coordination do if you don't mind me asking?

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Guest Steve_Park

>What exactly does auto-coordination do if you don't mind me>asking?It moves the Rudder (and hence nose gear) when you turn the yoke (Joystick) to the left or right.Steve Park

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It's my understnding that all modern jets fly under auto coordination; only when crabbing for landing or similar situation would the pilot command the rudder. No? PatAMD A64 4000+ @ 2.6GHz, Zalman7700Cu cooler, Corsair XMS 1GB DDR, LTK6800GT-OC, Asus A8V MoBo, WDRaptor10KrpmHDD, TrackIR4, CH FSYoke + TQ, XP-hsp2

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Guest BlueRidgeDx

For what its worth, the nose wheel steering WILL absolutely move when the aircraft is stopped. I know this because I was pushing an Evergreen 747 at Rickenbacker ANGB when I had to stop short for a FedEx MD-11 passing behind us. I was only half way through my turn when the crew told me to hold and wait for the FedEx jet to pass, so the nosewheels were still turned about 20 degrees. The mechanic, thinking that the push was complete, decided to pull the by-pass pin without getting a "brakes set" hand signal, and without removing the towbar. Do you know what happens when you remove the bypass pin with the wheels turned? They center themselves with 3000psi of hydraulic pressure.Do you know what happens to a towbar when the shear-pins have been welded into place by a retarded GSE mechanic? It splinters, with a horrific crack that you can hear over the whine of the engines even with "ears" on.To this day, I have no idea what possesed the the mechanic to pull that pin. It also eludes me why anyone would weld the shear-pins into a towbar...but that is neither here nor there.The point is, if the hydraulic strength is enough to center the nose wheels while stopped, then its also strong enough to move them through tiller movement.Regards,Nick

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Ok, I asked captain Alan Carter - the one who is featured on the ITVV dvd video (Hethrow to San Francisco flight). He is a well known 744 captain formerly with Virgin Atlantic, then Asiana .. now I am not sure where he flies. But this is what he emailed me on this subject.It would be very difficult under normal circumstances to turn the nosewheel whilst stationary. It is for this reason that whilst taxiing we try to stop with the nosewheel straight; otherwise an excessive amount of thrust is required to get the aircraft underway once again.However, if the tarmac is icy, then yes you would be able to move the nosewheel whilst stationary.As an aside the hydraulic system one would need to be pressurised for the nosewheel steering to function, either by the engine driven pump if number one engine is running or by using the air driven pump should their be APU bleed air available.I hope this answers your question. Feel free to ask me again in the future.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

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Guest BlueRidgeDx

I thought my story above illustrated the defitive answer pretty clearly...Regardless of what any pilot tells you, the NWS WILL turn while stationary. I've seen it countless times with my own two eyes...on 747-200F's, 747-400F's, MD-11's, A300B4F's, 757's, A319/320's, DC-9's, and 717's.Here's another trip for you. When you push a 727, you usually disconnect the NLG "scissors", allowing the nosewheel assembly to freely caster. When you're done pushing, you have to reconnect them, and half the time, the upper and lower arms do not line up. I personally, have grabbed the lower scissor arm, and with my own strength, turned the nose wheels left/right as needed to line up the arms. I'm fairly confident that if I can do it, then 3000psi of hydraulic power can do it. With the oleo and shock strut centered vertically above a dual wheel assembly, the only friction that needs to be overcome is rolling friction...there is very little scrubbing.Regards,Nick

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>Regardless of what any pilot tells you, the NWS WILL>turn while stationary. Sorry, I rather listen to pilots, since they are the ones who sit in the cockpit and move the tiller. Michael J.

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