Wonder if anyone can shed any light.With speedbrakes deployed what is the rationale behind not showing this on the EICAS like

<>The controls are big levers right next to you. Flying the simulation deprives you of about 98% of the experience of being in a cockpit, which is most of all sensational (movement, not exclamation). New pilots learning instrument flying either learn quickly not to focus on one thing or they fail. I don't know why the indications are not where you ask, but when real pilots do things like fly into mountains or run out of gas while trying to figure out what's wrong with the landing gear it is because they got too focused and forgot to fly.

That's all very nice but all that's required is the word "SPEEDBRAKE" on the EICAS. This won't require a major redesign of the Jumbo and I agree that it SHOULD have been placed in the design of the Jumbo by Boeing because no matter how good a pilot/copilot is, this sort of lack of information CAN lead to human error. And the job of a safe airplane design in my opinion is to ideally completely eliminate any CHANCE of human error... Don't you agree?John

Isn't their position indicated on the flight control display on the status page? and as said, if you attention is required, the ECIAS will alert you with the "Speedbrake" indication and caution sound.

> I believe there was an air crash a few years ago where one of the contributing causes was the crew had deployed the speedbrake to slow down in a fast descent and had forgotten to retract them when they levelled out.You probably mean American 965 at Cali:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_965Martin

The 744 doesn't have this fault. If thrust levers are advanced more than a cretain amount with the spoilers extended, an EICAS caution is generated.

"If thrust levers are advanced more than a cretain amount with the spoilers extended, an EICAS caution is generated."Specifically (for this phase of flight)... Speedbrake lever greater than 15 degrees and two or more thrust levers greater than about 10 degrees (45 degrees "thrust resolver angle") with radio height greater than 15'Cheers.Q>

I really don

"What I am trying to get at is that in most situations if the speedbrake is deployed it means

I assume you are not a pilot.

A message is not required. There are more than enough clues that the speedbrake is deployed...rumble, buffeting and if it is still left out when power comes on then an EICAS message. This is what EICAS is primarily designed for....alerting crew to a condition that is different from the norm for that phase of flight. Use of speedbrake is normal and an expected part of the operation. Speedbrake out and thrust on is not, hence the message. Wherever possible I leave my hand on the speedbrake lever when using them and this alleviates, to some degree, leaving thenm deplyed and getting the EICAS message.CheersSteve

>And the job of a safe airplane design in my opinion is to>ideally completely eliminate any CHANCE of human error... >Don't you agree?NoPaul

Thanks for replying everyone.I must admit I am starting to feel that my perception of speedbrake use as being 'abnormal' is now looking wrong.Guess i am going to have to listen to the rumble...Chris S

>Thanks for replying everyone.>>I must admit I am starting to feel that my perception of>speedbrake use as being 'abnormal' is now looking wrong.>>Guess i am going to have to listen to the rumble...>>Chris SIt's pretty normal...I've heard someone say "during descent, speedbrakes are primary flight controls..."- they were talking about the 763, bbut it applies to many other planes.