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747x

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Please sign your posts with your name...normal forum rules.This topic has been discussed in great depth...a simple forum search will highlight numerous posts...& points of view.The thing to remember here is that PMDG is a business...& the folks who produce this product have to put food on the table & keep a roof overhead.The new products for FSX will be redesigned in every way from the ground up.If you consider how much pleasure (in hours) these products give...compared to say a ticket to a soccer/baseball/NFL/NBA/Hockey game you will quickly realise that they are value for money!!Kind Regards


Steve Bell

 

"Wise men talk because they have something to say.  Fools talk because they have to say something." - Plato (latterly attributed to Saul Bellow)

 

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Guest AJ

>NO Discount Either, This stinks we payed the money to buy it>for 2004What an ignorant thing to say! First of all, PMDG never said that there would be no discounts, so why do you assume that? In any case its their choice.Secondly, if you paid any attention to this forum at all, it might occur to you that they have put nearly as much work into the 744X as they would have into a brand new product. It was not their fault that FSX is so different from FS9. How can you expect them to put so much time and effort into something if they won't make any money on it? At the end of the day, they are a business and not a charity. Where do you get off thinking that they owe you somthing for purchasing their product? In exchange for your money, you received a product, and it still works perfectly well in FS9, just as it did the day you bought it. You are welcome to continue using it as long as you like. Why on Earth would you expect them to give you the the FSX version for free? If you bought a car in 2006 do you really think that they will give you the 2007 model for free, or even for a discount? Good luck with that. That's not the way the world works. Grow up.Andrew

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Guest SKireyev

You know, I had the same problem with my car dealer. I stopped by in my 2004 car, and couldn't understand why they just wouldn't give me a 2007 as a free upgrade. Pretty messed up! They also refused to sell it to me for $1,000. I don't get it, I paid for the 2004 model. I had the same issue with the flight simulator. Microsoft refused to give me a free upgrade to FSX. They said something about Bill Gates needing a new helipad. What a crock!Cheers,

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Wanting a discount as a previous owner of the same aircraft isn't some sin. Most of us realize that there is work done to make this aifcraft shine in FSX, but "from the ground up" is a bit of a stretch - many portions of the previous work will wind up in this FSX product without any changes.Does the WHOLE visual 3D model have to be re-worked "from the ground up?" I doubt it. Sure some of the model may have been changed, but not "from the ground up."The same goes for the gauge/panel programming - there's no way that PMDG would throw out all of the previous work in the 2004 version. There would be no NEED to throw that work away." It was not their fault that FSX is so different from FS9."Sorry, but FSX isn't THAT different from FS9 - there are differences, but not on the order of saying you are starting over. The same model files will compile (mostly) with the SDK. There are new techniques available in the SDK (and perhaps in general with DirectX and windows programming) but these are NOT so revolutionary so as to void all previous work - to believe so would be gullible. What would help a lot of the consumers of 3rd party software for MSFS would be to read and understand the SDKs. With this start you can see what is involved in making an add-on. Then, realize that your favorite 3rd party add-on maker goes beyond the SDK for things like panel and systems programming and flight modeling - yes, there is a LOT of work that goes into making a supreme add-on like the 744. However, the SDKs change from version to version of MSFS in an evolutionary manner. Yes, there are technology (SDK and otherwise) changes possible in FSX and some of these are showing up in the product, but we aren't paying for any "ground-up" redo. We are paying for many hours of work and we are paying for a product from one of the top vendors - Mercedes, BMW and Ferrari probably don't do discounts either.Different shops have different philosophies on this stuff: Eaglesoft offers a meager discount for a short time when doing FS2004->FSX, LevelD has a deep discount for FS2004->FSX and many of the Flight1 stuff is at no charge for FS2004->FSX.PMDG has been extremely successful with their products and choose to ask a premium for the use of their products - a premium that most of us will pay. In any case, while the original request may have been crassly phrased, it is not outrageous to desire some sort of discount for being a previous customer. Since the pricing details aren't posted for the FSX version of the 744, much of this may be premature.Jeff


Jeff Bea

I am an avid globetrotter with my trusty Lufthansa B777F, Polar Air Cargo B744F, and Atlas Air B748F.

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Guest Scousefox9

Other companies such as LevelD and Flight1 probably offer discount or free upgrade to encourage people to buy their own products instead of PMDG's because they know like we all do that they are the best!If you think about it, you're paying for a product that really is remarkable - the closest to the real thing. What's more, it will last as long as your interest and enthusiasm for FSX does.PMDG, like any company, would be glad of as much cash as possible. It could be the case however, the more profit they make the more can be put back into the company to keep it running for another 10 or so years. Not to mention the ability to enlist more experts and technical advisors for new products. If you do the maths, they don't really make much money during the development stages - only what people are paying to buy current products. Therefore the cash flows when the product is released. So until that time they are being payed or living off stored revenue. So in conclusion, they need to streach out receiving hands widely in order to stock up on revenue just as those poor ants gather food for the winter season.Bearing this in mind, including the excellent technical support on offer and free liveries already painted, i'd be willing to pay substantially more for any of their products than will be their asking price.If I was buying some bananas from the local grocer, yes i'd probably barter or something. Why? They're just bananas! You have a little bit of pleasure eating them and then YOU have to get up off YOUR chair and put the peal in the bin... Now compare this with a product as close to the 747 you can have, on your personal computer, ready to fly anywhere you want, whenever you want! I think you get the point.So pay and play or refuse and don't use! I know what i'm choosing :).Keep up the good work PMDG!

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>If you do the maths, they don't really make much>money during the development stages - only what people are>paying to buy current products. Therefore the cash flows when>the product is released. So until that time they are being>payed or living off stored revenue. Good points Liam...However, I will point out that the phenomenon you describe above is not unique to PMDG or software development in general. Many businesses experience what you describe. The quality of the PMDG product is high, the highest most likely, but customer demand for consideration for having purchased the last version is quite normal in this business.When you look at photo-editing software, operating systems, music and film-production software, design and modelling software, and the like, you'll find numerous examples of a reduced-price "upgrade" for users of the pervious version.When a new version of Windows or Office comes out, it is NOT an entirely new animal - as a nod to those moving up a new version, and "upgrade" price is offered.If PMDG doesn't want to do this, well, that's their business. Those of us who think an upgrade offer is warranted are certainly not overreaching in our request - there is ample precedence in the MSFS industry (and the software industry in general) for price consideration for owners of the previous version.I suppose since Microsoft doesn't do it for Flight Simulator, PMDG is following that lead.I don't need convincing to buy it, I will be buying it(even if that action is contrary to my point here). However, when a guy asks for a discount because he bought the last one (or voices his displeasure if such a discount is not forthcoming), he doesn't need a beat-down by zealous faithful. We should assume that this guy is a customer, just like the rest of us, and, as such, his voice deserves to be heard. Item 8 of the forum guidelines says:"8) In reference to Item 7 above, it is acceptable to be critical of any aspect of a PMDG product, but it is not acceptable to do so in a method that is considered to be an "opinion rant" or an "anger vent." Such behavior will not be tolerated under any circumstance.I assume from reading this that dissent is within the bounds of allowable speech on this forum. Although I am not really sure what an opinion rant is or isn't. I suppose "this stinks" is pretty close to the line.Jeff


Jeff Bea

I am an avid globetrotter with my trusty Lufthansa B777F, Polar Air Cargo B744F, and Atlas Air B748F.

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Guest AJ

Once again folks, PMDG has NEVER catagorically stated that they will not give a discount. Why are you folks assuming that they will not. They do have a pretty good history of giving discounts in the past (i.e. the 737-800 and the 747-400F). Why not just wait and see what they do before compaining. In any case, pricing and discounts are their decision to make. Your choice is one of whther to buy or not. In my experience, the free market is pretty good at sorting such things out. Let's sit back and let the process work. Andrew

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PMDG does so many advance techniques that it would be far easier to build from the ground up instead of trying to fix everything. Take the wings for example. Right now they're split into three sections to allow them to flex. Instead of rejoining the wing into one piece then applying the new flex technique, it's easier to use the new model software and do that on a new model. Also, they're reworking the Leading Edge Flaps which would also be easier to start over instead of undo then redo. In the end there are many new features in FSX that PMDG wants to take advantage of. This is one reason they are starting over from scratch. It was decidedly easier to start over instead of go through and look for things that can be changed, change them, put the aircraft through testing, then find they missed one thing, go through testing again, and then find more things over and over. And don't forget, the aircraft was pretty much complete a while ago. They just needed things from Microsoft to finish a few things, then they needed SP1 to make sure everything still worked. Now considering the level of work they are putting into this aircraft, which is probably 5 times as much as they planned, I'm surprised they said they were still giving a generous discount let alone a discount. They are and have been working very hard to get the 747X out as soon as possible. Unfortunately Murphy's been working with the entire FS community with FSX. All we can do is wait and admire the screen shots they are willing to share with us.Ryan GamurotLucky to live Hawai'ihttp://www.virtualpilots.org/signatures/vpa296.png


Ryan Gamurot
 

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Thank you all once again for these comments and the civil manner they've been addressed in.PMDG does not discuss pricing, as a long-standing policy (I am expecting that by now, everyone who's been reading these forums long enough will understand why).That said, we will announce our plans for the 747-400X pricing once the product is available for release. We are still too busy working on it, to be able to say for sure what the price will be or whether an upgrade price will exist and how.To Jeff (who said that not much is done from the ground up) - if you were close to Athens, Greece, I'd love to invite you over for a cup of coffee so you can actually see just HOW MUCH has changed, not only in the external model (which Vin has redone entirely in FSX to take advantage of new features) but also in the gauge code itself to adapt with SimConnect (ground up!) and with the changed aerodynamics (all the autopilot / autothrottle work and FMC code).As such, I'd humbly ask all of you to just think about the possible reasons why the 747-400X is not in your hands just yet, after almost a year that FSX has been available. Is it because we're sitting on an island somewhere, drinking Latte's and enjoying the sun? My family would sure like that ;-).I am hoping you all understand! :-)


Lefteris Kalamaras - Founder

www.flightsimlabs.com

 

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The longer you take before releasing the new 747, the better for me! :) I bought a new computer (Core 2 Duo, 2 GB fast RAM etc) just to accomodate FSX but I still don't get good enough performance that I think it would be able to handle anything like the 747. So as long as the 747 for FSX isn't released I can concentrate on totally enjoying all the magnificent add-ons I have for FS9 and that runs beautifully on my rig. Once the PMDG 747 FSX for is released, I have to immediately upgrade again! It's really beyond my control! :) Pleeeeease, take your time!


Krister Lindén
EFMA, Finland
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