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Thunder Bay in smaller zips please...

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For days I've tried to download the 100MB+ Thunder Bay scenery, without any luck. It aborts sooner or later, and Gozilla cannot recover.. Or it stops without any error messages at 20 or 30 megs... Is there a way to get this scenery in smaller chunks (zips) ?ciao, Dr.J

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Amen to that :-madC'mon you guys, we of lowly 56K modem status want to enjoy your efforts as much as anyone else.Mike :-wave (I've calmed down now!)

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Have you guys tried using GetRight or Down Accelerator Plus ? Either should resume the download after a timeout, abort, or even a system crash. Pretty cool stuff.

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Hi,Ditch Gozilla as that program seems to develop its own problems the more you use it. I have been using DAP for several years and have not had the problems the Gozilla produces. Took me about 6hrs to download and with no problems.Ed

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Hi Mike,In todays world, 56k still has more penetration than broadband (just barely however - I haven't look up the stats lately). But files are growing along with broadband installations. This is, of course, most pronounced in the games category. All it takes is a jaunt to any major game site to see the size of demos, etc today. These don't preclude 56k users from getting them though...As Philip and Ed perfectly state, the answer is simple: a reliable download manager. And AVSIM recommends DAP for a reason: it works (highly tested with the AVSIM library in particular). The same can be said for GetRight (my personal favorite even with broadband), but GoZilla has been racked with problems since it was first introduced.In the same vein, breaking a zip doesn't lessen the time it takes you to download any files of course, it just makes them harder to manage once its received. Take Philip, Ed and my's advice: get or [link:www.getright.com/get.html]GetRight]. How a 56k user could manage without either of the two on todays (and the future) internet is hard to fathom.Good luck,Elrond"A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle."[/font

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I'll start by saying that I have already downloaded the scenery.In this case the files could be split quite easily. The large zip file actually contains 4 smaller zip files. Can't these be posted individually.RegardsRussell Jourdain (NZL007/ZK-RHJ)

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I don't understand why creators of this package won't give some of us a choice of seperating the ground-scenery from the airports. I would love to have just the two airports but not the rest. Please ...Michael J.

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Hi Russell,Talking to them on Monday, I believe that was their plan... To upload the four packaged zip files separately. For one reason or another, lines got crossed and all of them were zipped into the one package that is available now.From my point of view (as a non-active member of TFO), I personally think its better having one zip. It creates far less installation and support hassles for both the team and end-users alike... Three separate mandatory zip files to install one scenery is a headache from a support end, believe me - it seems to confuse some users to no end (talking from past experience here).With a competent (and today near mandatory) download accelerator, this is easier than separate files anyway. Start the download and forget it (until its done, of course :-)). With DAP or GetRight, pausing the download for whatever reason and resuming it later is completely natural too. This of course works fine with AVSIM's Library using these tools.As a side project since yesterday, I've been creating a custom automatic installer for the team's Thunder Bay scenery (and future releases). It may only be included on the CDROM version they are working up (at cost only of course), but it may also be included in a repackaged and re-uploaded version of the zip thats now available. If so, this would come in at 87MB with a separate download for the bonus, but not required, Isle Royale scenery. But don't worry: if you already have the existing scenery, there will be no need to download it again! This would be a simple repack to make installation easier on users. If they decide to do this, having one zip just makes even more sense because of the way it'll work, I believe.Again, I don't speak for the Team anymore, so this is just my impression and opinion.Take care,Elrond"A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle."

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Hi Michael,I personally believe that would destroy the reason it was created in the first place: to realize an extremely detailed and highly accurate VFR scenery for the area. This project wasn't just about the airport and surrounding buildings, its about regional VFR scenery. You've made it clear you don't like TerraScene'd scenery anymore - thats fine. But they/I do because TS is what currently gives accurate roads and coastlines, on *top* of accurate landclass. At the moment (and specially over the months this was created), there are/were no methods to import roads and coasts into FS. LandClass sceneries alone don't do this of course. There is fervent work going on in the design community by some brilliant people to get coasts, roads *and* LandClass to all work together in FS - without PhotoReal scenery. Its just simply not possible yet. Even when it is, you can be guanrenteed that PhotoReal will always play an important part in any Flight Ontario scenery, at least to some extent.Again, this was a project designed for a reason: regional VFR flight, as all Flight Ontario sceneries are. Separating out the airport and structures alone destroys that vision, IMO. Besides, the team thinks Thunder Bay looks wonderful as it is designed, using what was and still is leading edge methods during its creation. I know you don't agree :-(, thats fine with me personally - you certainly have a choice to not use this free software. And while they may in the end decide to rip the package apart to fit your own style, I personally think it would be a mistake.Again, I'm not speaking for TFO here... These are simply my opinions.Take care,Elrond"A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle."

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Hi all.Elrond's right, of course.This is the only way to get an accurate VFR scenery into FS at this time. And that was the purpose of the scenery.Thunder Bay scenery is special.If you fly a TerraScene-based scenery of your home area, your first reaction will be a huge smile. You can actually see the city streets of your home town. With autogen or objects added, you can actually see your home, and neighbor's homes depicted. You can visually navigate without any confusion... no need for a map ( the sim is the map ). File sizes are huge, but what fun to fly your neighborhood, and actually see it!Right now I've got about 5000 Sq. miles of Terrascene derived scenery of my home area ( about 60 x 90 miles! ). It's only the water and the summer daylight terrain, and it's over 6000 CUSTOM textures, each are 43Kb in size! I can fly VFR to places I've known most of my life... and the accurate placement of the roads, streams, raillines, water is amazing. It is fun!And that's the point of Thunder Bay. Accurate placement. It makes all the difference. You could use the scenery as a 3d map of Thunder Bay!Several people are currently working to develop tools to allow accurately placed VFR scenery with the default textures of FS2002... that's the next design step, and it will shrink the sceneries' sizes to a 'teaspoonful' by comparison. But we're month's away from that. So enjoy the state of the art with the Thunder Bay scenery.Dick

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As an alternative I can recommend Star Downloader. Havetested with Exp 5.5, Netscape 4.8, and Mozilla 1.1. No adware,no spyware. (And I only have a 33k Modem!!!!)scott s..

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OK OK - I'll dump Gozilla and will try again with DAP or GetRight. I still think 100+ MB zips are too big to handle for most of us, but thanks for the advice anyway.ciao, Dr.J.

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"Several people are currently working to develop tools to allow accurately placed VFR scenery with the default textures of FS2002."Don't be so modest, Dick. :-)What you, Chris, Arno and a few others are tackling on the coastline, road and landclass side of things is more than highly commendable. I have a load of respect for you guys and the investigative and applied work you all continue to plug away at. Microsoft couldn't have hidden and stayed silent about the process any better than they have... And that just makes my respect for the tenacity you all show even stronger. I have no doubt the not-so-distant future of FS addon sceneries will be much smaller, yet just as detailed, as a result of the work you have been doing - in spite of the FS dev team, not because of it.Take care,Elrond"A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle."

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>If you fly a TerraScene-based scenery of your home area, >your first reaction will be a huge smile. You can actually >see the city streets of your home town. Dick,You don't have to tell me all these things. I have done it before. I used Terrascene scenery before (in FLY). I even generated my own scenery. I was once absolutely ecstatic about it. But after I moved to the FS2002 and tasted different sceneries, different textures I admit my taste changed. I no longer care for Terrascene primarily because of relatively blurried textures and colors I find unnatural. Huge size doesn't help either but I would cope with it if it was worthwile to me. Streets like any other 'linear' type of ground features don't impress me a bit - in my real world flying I fly high enough (> 8000 ft) so I could never use them for my navigation.Best,Michael J.

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Hey Michael,"Streets like any other 'linear' type of ground features don't impress me a bit"Sounds dubious... I hope at the least you pay some little attention to where the large bodies of water are and their (accurate) coastlines. For the sake of your passengers, and all.:-)Take care,Elrond"A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle."

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>I hope at the least you pay attention to >where the large bodies of water are and their (accurate) >coastlines. Elrond, I do. The problem with "linear" data like highways, rails is that regardless whether it is the default scenery or Terrascene - it doesn't look good. Real highways are often obscured by buildings, trees or some other structrss. In FS2002 they stick out like a well laid out map. Frankly I wouldn't miss them terribly if someone decided to yank them all out. Michael J.

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Couldn't have said it better myself. LOLPresently we are busy touching up a few issues before deciding on which direction to go.What I can tell you, is for the cost of shipping, we have an offer from a fellow Canuck to burn and ship anyone a CD of the scenery.All comments are welcome and taken into consideration. http://members.rogers.com/jkanold/jimlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/jkanold/flyurl.gif

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Hi Michael.To make Elrond's point, 2 pics... the MS default and the Terrascene derived CUSTOM for approaching Delavan Lake at 2500 meters:

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