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WarHorse47

Possible TBM load problem

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This looks like the right place to post a possible problem with the TBM.I purchased it last night, and have had several flights. Great job.My problem surfaces when I attempt to load a second flight, or switch a/c and select the TBM. Whenever I do this, the TBM doesn't load and FS9 has a CTD.I've got a lot of experience with FS9 and have lots of other payware and freeware a/c, and I've done some testing to isolate this issue.My default flight is always a cold start. I was wondering if there might be a correlation with that.Anyways, once I reload the sim I have no problem loading the TBM. It's always the second flight that produces the CTD.Any suggestions? Should I change my default flight parameters to something else (e.g., engine running)?Thanks--WH

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Just an update.I just found the manual and read where there is an issue with some ATI Cards. I guess that is what is causing the CTD in my case.--WH

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Here are the specs on my machine if it helps track down the gauge causing the issue:Dell Dimension 4550Pentium 4 CPU 2.4 Ghz1 Gb Ram128 DDR ATI Radeon Pro 9700 TX128 Mb RAM--WH

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Hello all. I've been a lurker around here for a while, but this is my first post. WH, I've been messing around with the Avenger and FS9 all day, and after my copilot (my Avenger crazed son) left for a while, I could cocentrate a little better. My problem is exactly the same as yours. Here's my specs: HP Pavillion a1330n Windows XP Media Edition SP2 AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3800+ 2.39GHz 960 Mb RAMI hope this info will lead to a patch to correct the CTD, but on a brighter note, when I fly the Avenger, it usually turns out to be a long, satisfying flight experience that tends to make me not be overly stressed when the CTD comes, because by that time I'm usually in need of a break anyway..... I am enjoying yhis aircraft very much, in spite of the small problem, and I thank the fine team at MAAMSIM for creating it for the community.Quicksand

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Very strange, I seem to be able to switch back and forth with no issue (except, strangely enough, I get no Active Camera, which I've posted in a different thread)...

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Yes, strange indeed. The manual indicates the problem is related to certain ATI video cards. With the various flights I've taken, I'm starting to take some notes to determine any trends. There are so many variables its tricky to isolate the cause.The manual recommends not switching models within flights. I just completed a nice flight, exited to the 'Create a Flight' menu, and with the same TBM model I picked another airport. And... it would not load, but gave me an error message and locked up. It is almost as if once the a/c is loaded, something is locking onto a memory bock so it will not let you reload the aircraft for a second flight or to pick another model.Anyways, as the manual says I'm going to just post my experiences and observations here in the forum. MAAM has their air show this weekend, so they are likely busy and unable to reply until sometime next week.--WH

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Thanks WH and others for helping us to resolve this problem.ATI was mentioned simply because that is where we saw it on one of our developer's notebook machines. At post time there were no reports of this from our beta team and we hoped it would be a non issue.Is it isolated to a particular view or video mode?VC, 2D, spot view, full screen, windowed, or isn't it picky?Fred

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Fred, I always fly full screen mode, and have not checked to see what the windowed mode would do. As for the views, I've not found any difference in any view. I'll give it a try on my system and report back. Q~

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>Thanks WH and others for helping us to resolve this problem.>>ATI was mentioned simply because that is where we saw it on>one of our developer's notebook machines. At post time there>were no reports of this from our beta team and we hoped it>would be a non issue.>>Is it isolated to a particular view or video mode?>VC, 2D, spot view, full screen, windowed, or isn't it picky?>>Fred>Hi, Fred.I'm running full screen at 1024 X 768, 32 bit resolution.It happens everytime after I've flown one flight in the TBM.It also happens whenever I attempt to change the model or to another texture of the TBM.I can close out the 1st TBM flight, and start another flight with another aircraft. However, if I attempt to fly the TBM again (for a second time), the program aborts (CTD).Once I'm in a TBM flight, I can reposition myself with the map. I thought I would mention this because this reloads the scenery and current aircraft without crashing to the desktop.Like Quicksand, I haven't tried the windowed mode.One thought I had, was if it made any difference on which install was used. In my case I did the 2nd install which was just the a/c and the carrier. This did not install RCBCO-20 or FSUIPC v3.8.1.0 as I already had RCBCO-20 installed and am currently running FSUIPC v3.768. I noticed that the panel.cfg still refered to the RCBCO gauges although I elected not to overwrite my current install.I'm still enjoying the TBM although its one flight at a time. And I'm making observations and taking notes as I go.Thanks--WHUPDATE: There was a suggestion posted on Sim-Outhouse forum that provided a partial solution. By moving the panel folders to from fsfsconv to the individual aircraft folders, and renaming them, I can now switch aircraft textures for the TBM without a CTD. However, I still cannot switch between models.--WH

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It's late night after day two of WWII Weekend where it was incedibly hot and steamy, with worse predicted for tommorow, maybe into triple digit temperatures. The main computer running the TBM decides every few hours that it's had enough of this heat and goes on strike for a while until we let it cool. I have 6 fans stiring the air, but tomoorow may be more of the same.Anyway, about the aircraft switching bug - you are already talking to the right team member in Fred. He and Hansi will have to track this thing down, so please continue the detective work and report here. Hi to everyone from me and 'Dark Moment'. After the show yesterday, we got a special trip in a golf cart across the active runway so that we could show our other perrenial helper, Dave Wood the R4D. I'm sure Mark will be posting the cockpit snaps pretty soon.Bill RambowMAAM-SIM http://www.fssupport.com/maam/hgrsm_blkani.gif

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Hi WH,>I noticed that the panel.cfg >still refered to the RCBCO gauges although I elected not to>overwrite my current install.No problem there, the panel.cfg files are common to all installations. If the gauges are not installed those panel.cfg entries are ignored.>By moving the panel folders>from fsfsconv to the individual aircraft folders, and>renaming them, I can now switch aircraft textures for the TBM>without a CTD.Good find. I think this was done to reduce the size of the download.Thanks a bunch for your efforts.

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Good morning.I did a little more experimenting this morning. I made a little progress, but not 100%. Here goes.Since there was some improvement in placing the panel folder in each aircraft folder, this morning I decided to test what would happen if I also placed a sound folder in each.My first test was to just place the sound folder in the TBM folder, and alias the rest. The results were the same - a CTD when chaning between models.My second test was to create a full sound folder (all contents) in each aircraft folder. I was able to switch to one different model without a CTD, but encountered the CTD when attempting to switch to a third model. In other words, if I started with the Tarpon I model I was able to switch to the Tarpon II model; but, I could not change from the Tarpon II model to another model without the CTD.--WHUPDATE: Well, nuts. Scratch that idea. The results are inconsistent. I just did some more testing, and the results are the same - CTD on the 1st model change.I went back to the default install configuration and we'll just wait and see if there is gauge conflict with the ATI card. I can't think of anything else to test at the moment.--WH

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Rats! I was beginning to think we were on to something. Although finding out what the bug is not is still progress.Thanks for everything WH.Fred

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>Rats! I was beginning to think we were on to something.>Although finding out what the bug is not is still progress.>>Thanks for everything WH.>Fred>Agreed.I wonder. Is there anyway we could determine if there is a gauge causing the conflict, and which one?My gut is telling me we may have a gauge that is not unloading from memory when we attempt to switch models. The relocation of the sound and panel folders are working in part because of the shorter path which might affect memory usage. Just a wild guess.If we knew which gauge could be causing the problem, it could be temporarly disabled to see if its the cause.Gonna have to think this one out. :-walksmile --WH

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For what little it's worth, I've had the same sort of CTD when switching from/to the Spitfire Mk. XVI by Plane Design, which is another plane with a lot of instrument coding. The CTD only happens after I've been flying either the Avenger or the Spitfire for awhile, I seem to be able to switch freely between them for the first couple of minutes after the sim loads. It also seems to happen more when I switch TO the Spitfire, rather than from it.

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Hi,>My gut is telling me we may have a gauge that is not unloading>from memory when we attempt to switch models.This was among my first thoughts but I'm quite sure the gauges are cleaning up ok on exit. Anyway this should effect everyone not just the unlucky few. At this point it appears that most of us can switch in and out all day long without the CTD.>If we knew which gauge could be causing the problem, it could>be temporarly disabled to see if its the cause.Commenting them out "//" one by one is the only way. The only gauge absolutely required is this one in the [Vcockpit01] section of panel.cfg. Without this the plane should refuse to load.gauge00=MAAM_TBM!VC_Control, 0,0,1,1One other thing to try is bringing the plane up in VC mode without using 2D at all and see what happens.Thanks

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Thanks Ken, every clue is worth consideration. Although in this case we may be injecting someone else's bug into the mix.

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Ken and I had the same experience with the PD Spitfire.The drop tank gauge in the VC was causing a CTD when you wanted to switch a/c.Mine is still disabled, and there hasn't been a problem since.The problem is identical to what I think we're experiencing, but it seems more limited to certain machines or video cards or drivers or something else.--WH

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The Torpedo controls in the TBM use the Drop Tank function so you may be onto something here.If true then the CTD would also occur in the 2D panel since VC gauges remain active in 2D mode.Unfortunately in this case the "gauge" is coded into the model so there is no way for a quick check.

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Okay guys.... I'm going to stir the mix a little here. Keep in mind I am somewhat "computer-impaired", and only know when something's broken, not how to fix it... Please look over my lack of computer savvy. My Fly-by v.2 packed up on me on my last Avenger flight. Just an observation here... One of the default key commands for this program is "shift+f", although I've always used the default settings. Next, I had assigned "shift+f" as the command to arm and release my drop tanks in so equipped aircraft long before I ever installed Fly by. Lastly, the connection between the torpedo commands of the Avenger and the drop tank commands working the same.... I have no idea what the connection might be, but it sure is getting complicated, especially since the majority of folks seem to not have any problems... When I fly the Avenger, I drag a torpedo everywhere, mainly because a torpedo bomber just isn't a torpedo bomber without a "fish." It's funny, though, because I use Fly-by in tower view alot while I fly, and it worked fine until this particular flight. The only thing I did differently this time was to load real world weather after I took off. I've flown the same scenery many times already without anything bad happening other than the CTD after the flight was complete. I'm dizzy from all that mental exertion. I think I'll sit down now. *:-* :-hmmm

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Quicksand, perhaps this might explain the logic.FS9 has a ton of commands. The 'G' command is the standard for lowering or raising the landing gear. You can change the that command through the control assignment interface, but FS9 will always have the 'action.'Gauges are another way of executing the command, except they are built into the gauge which talks directly with FS9. The landing gear lever in the Avenger is a gauge that tells the program to raise or lower the gear.Some gauges execute multiple commands. A bomb release gauge would tell FS9 to issue the command and might also trigger another command or sound or effect.I'm not a modeler by any means, but I understand the logic. But there is one more aspect in more current a/c and that is the xml gauge. Some gauges interact with an xml routine before issuing the final command to FS9. For example you might want to drop that torpedo, but the xml file will first check to see if the doors are open or not.A quick look at the Avenger panel.cfg supports what Fred said and this discussion. There are several gauges for the bomb door and light, but none for dropping the bomb (or torpedo or tanks) so it's likely part of the model.I've only had one (of many) flights where I practiced with the armament. If I recall, the loading is set before takeoff with the doors open and you select between bombs or torpedos. Once airborne there is a selection between guns and droppiing the ordinance. I was able to fire the guns, and I think I dropped the torpedo but never saw it visually. To me this is a very complex (and impressive) arrangement to parallel the real thing. BTW - firing the guns or dropping the ordinance is through the trigger, which is the brake commmand in FS9. It's a command that cannot be disabled.--WH

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>But there is one more aspect in more current a/c and that is>the xml gauge. Some gauges interact with an xml routine>before issuing the final command to FS9. For example you>might want to drop that torpedo, but the xml file will first>check to see if the doors are open or not.>>A quick look at the Avenger panel.cfg supports what Fred said>and this discussion. There are several gauges for the bomb>door and light, but none for dropping the bomb (or torpedo or>tanks) so it's likely part of the model.Right you are WH. The TBM is full of this stuff, particularly the Electrical Panel with the torpedo and light functions. Lots of communication between XML code in the model and the C++ 2D gauges.Fred

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Okay, I did some more tests and wanted to share.I was curious to see what the memory was affected by flying the Avenger, and test to see if the problems were the same in windowed mode.I had a background program running for measuring available memory. My total available memory is 1023 mb, and there was 665 mb free before firing up FS9.I use FSAutoStart to shut down background programs, so after shutting down a few things and firing up FS9 I had 614 mb free.After selecting the avenger for my default flight the memory dropped to 551. After FLY NOW! was selected and my flight started the memory dropped to around 361 mb to as high as 371 mb even after cycling all views and taking off.After flying a short distance I switched to window mode from full screen and notice no memory drop. Then I went to change models. While waiting for the error message and CTD to come, the memory dropped to 270 mb available. After closing out the program, it returned to 685 mb.So, now we know that the problem persists in window mode and there is an increase in memory usage when switching models.--WH

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