Just noticed at TigerDirect:Processor Speed X2 6000+ / 3.0GHz Processor Interface Socket AM2 Bus Speed 1000MHz (2000 MT/s) Architecture 90 nm Stepping F3 Wattage 125W Fan Included Price - $499.Does this ###### back the lead over the Intel Core 2 Duo 2.66 at $560 on performance ?Bob (Las Cruces, NM)

I don't know about "..###### back the lead", but it certainly performed admirably in this review: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/463/1/It's a viable option for any AM2 owner looking for the ultimate speed boost at around $475 USD. And since all of their hardware is already in place, it might beat spending even more money for RAM, a new motherboard and processor to win a couple of points in a benchmark.Regards,Jim Karn

Kinda makes me wish I had an AM2 board...RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

>Does this ###### back the lead over the Intel Core 2 Duo 2.66>at $560 on performance ?>>I don't know if the 6000+ will ###### back the lead, but I would say AMD's 65nm cpu (I think that's often referred to as 'Barcelona') has a better chance of snatching the lead for sure.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

>>Does this ###### back the lead over the Intel Core 2 Duo>2.66>>at $560 on performance ?>>>>>>I don't know if the 6000+ will ###### back the lead, but I>would say AMD's 65nm cpu (I think that's often referred to as>'Barcelona') has a better chance of snatching the lead for>sure.>>>Rhett>>AMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS>A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD>250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian caseAMD's "Barcelona", is being sampled (Under NDA), it's said by folks I trust that it's performance is proving to be even better than AMD's 40% improvement claim?Only God knows what that means for FSX.Barcelona will need an AM2+ socket or 1207 pin. Barcelona (K10) has been on the drawing boards for sometime. Many, many, improvements in it's architecture have been made. Suffice to say, it will run FSX at a very good FPS rate, as does my AMD Quad now.Some thought I gambled by building the Quad. It depends how you look at it. I remember when you could by a "NO Name" mobo from Taiwan that gave you no problems with the 8086-286 and early CPU's. They came with a 10 page manual and did not state who made it. But they were cheap and you build a decent machine for less. Those days are pretty much gone if you want anything close to state of the art.So far the AMD Quad has been rock solid. I will be able to drop in "Barcelona" CPU's when available.Running FSX under Vista-32 I see no decrease in FPS with the 8800GTX.I have made flights from NY to London, Hong Kong to LA etc. No problems, no running out of memory or any other issues. I still dual boot XP/Vista and run fs9 with XP because PMDG hasn't ported anything over yet. I was not surprised to see Core-0 @ 100%, was surprised to see Core's 1-2and 3 busy as well, particularly when running Fraps. The "other cores" spike up to 30-40%. Fraps is now multi threaded.When I have some time I need to try out the aircraft with the Garmin-1000, used the 530 before.In any event, many things coming down the road, the sp1, DX-10, and vid cards with GDDR4 and insane memory timings. Also a Vista patch.It never ends!

>In any event, many things coming down the road, the sp1,>DX-10, and vid cards with GDDR4 and insane memory timings.>Also a Vista patch.>I have said before that I feel like all of this taken together is going to mean we are going to hardware-away FSX performance problems, along with the SP1 and DX10.I think Barcelona cpu's will be out by the time the DX10 update to FSX is out, and for me personally, that might be a prudent time to retire my great Socket 939 warhorse to pasture.Instead of typical frames at 20-24 fps, I might be seeing 30-35 with the Barce along with matching hardware. I aim to keep my PC Power 510 with the new rig...maybe. Not sure yet.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

That would be nice if it happens. 125W on the 6000+ is a little much for me. Gotta go to 65nm.scott s..

>>>Does this ###### back the lead over the Intel Core 2 Duo>>2.66>>>at $560 on performance ?>>>>>>>>>>I don't know if the 6000+ will ###### back the lead, but I>>would say AMD's 65nm cpu (I think that's often referred to>as>>'Barcelona') has a better chance of snatching the lead for>>sure.>>>>>>Rhett>>>>AMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS>>A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD>>250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case>>AMD's "Barcelona", is being sampled (Under NDA), it's said by>folks I trust that it's performance is proving to be even>better than AMD's 40% improvement claim?>Only God knows what that means for FSX.>Barcelona will need an AM2+ socket or 1207 pin. Barcelona>(K10) has been on the drawing boards for sometime. Many, many,>improvements in it's architecture have been made. Suffice to>say, it will run FSX at a very good FPS rate, as does my AMD>Quad now.>Some thought I gambled by building the Quad. It depends how>you look at it. I remember when you could by a "NO Name" mobo>from Taiwan that gave you no problems with the 8086-286 and>early CPU's. They came with a 10 page manual and did not state>who made it. But they were cheap and you build a decent>machine for less. Those days are pretty much gone if you want>anything close to state of the art.>So far the AMD Quad has been rock solid. I will be able to>drop in "Barcelona" CPU's when available.>Running FSX under Vista-32 I see no decrease in FPS with the>8800GTX.>I have made flights from NY to London, Hong Kong to LA etc. No>problems, no running out of memory or any other issues. I>still dual boot XP/Vista and run fs9 with XP because PMDG>hasn't ported anything over yet. I was not surprised to see>Core-0 @ 100%, was surprised to see Core's 1-2and 3 busy as>well, particularly when running Fraps. The "other cores" spike>up to 30-40%. Fraps is now multi threaded.>When I have some time I need to try out the aircraft with the>Garmin-1000, used the 530 before.>In any event, many things coming down the road, the sp1,>DX-10, and vid cards with GDDR4 and insane memory timings.>Also a Vista patch.>>It never ends!> Yeah! But just when AMD snatches the performance crown away from the Core2 Duo's (And that remains to be seen) Intel will be ready with their 45ns CPU's to take it right back!! --- And the Chip Wars continue :)

>>Yeah! But just when AMD snatches the performance crown away>from the Core2 Duo's (And that remains to be seen) Intel will>be ready with their 45ns CPU's to take it right back!! --- And>the Chip Wars continue :)Only time will tell.Intel has stated a two year cadence WRT new architectures. That's very aggressive, one slip results in a train wreck like netburst, 10ghz by 2010 etc.It ain't over till it's over. But it's never over.On many mobo's you will notice the traces from the Northbridge to the DIMM slots are very wavy, why? Well they all have to be the same exact length. Even if the distances from the NB pins to the DIMM slot pins is different. Carry that concept down to the litho lines as we scale down to 45-32-22nm. At some point signal propagation will be more or as critical than leakage. Soon a new paradigm will be needed, nano tubes???I'm 72 years old, remember playing with my crystal and whisker, trying to listen to a radio station. Now I can run FS windows on my HDTV.If we don't get hit with a comet or something you young guy's are going to see some amazing stuff!

>the litho lines as we scale down to 45-32-22nm. At some point>signal propagation will be more or as critical than leakage.>Soon a new paradigm will be needed, nano tubes???>About 15 years ago an electrical engineering student friend and I were talking about using light instead of electricity, just in very general terms.Now he works at Intel and has been for about 9 years. Don't tell him I have an AMD cpu on my FS rig. :) I think he said there were some real problems encountered with the light concept, but you never know!RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

>AMD's "Barcelona", is being sampled (Under NDA), it's said by>folks I trust that it's performance is proving to be even>better than AMD's 40% improvement claimFolks = The Register?http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/17/am...lona/print.htmlWasn't AMD's 40% claim was specific to FP operations? If so, are the "folks" refering to FP operations as well?I think AMD is likely to regain the lead in at least some significant benchmarks, but with an introduction speed of 2.3GHz, I'm skeptical of how much of a lead they can manage. Especially since it seems Intel has some headroom in the Core 2's that they've been sandbagging.I think whatever lead AMD manages unfortunately evaporates with Penryn in just a few short months.

>>AMD's "Barcelona", is being sampled (Under NDA), it's said>by>>folks I trust that it's performance is proving to be even>>better than AMD's 40% improvement claim>>Folks = The Register?>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/17/am...lona/print.html>>Wasn't AMD's 40% claim was specific to FP operations? If so,>are the "folks" refering to FP operations as well?>>I think AMD is likely to regain the lead in at least some>significant benchmarks, but with an introduction speed of>2.3GHz, I'm skeptical of how much of a lead they can manage. >Especially since it seems Intel has some headroom in the Core>2's that they've been sandbagging.>>I think whatever lead AMD manages unfortunately evaporates>with Penryn in just a few short months.That kind of report, since most of it comes from AMD itself, you have to take with a grain of salt. As a lot of it is just PR hype. We have to wait until independant reviews to see just how good it is!! Hopefully it will live up to it's claims, since it keeps up the competition. Which is good since it spurs futher development from their competitors. AMD was able to overtake INTEL, because they pretty much fell a sleep at the wheel. Now that INTEL has woken up, things are getting interesting!

(SNIP)>AMD's "Barcelona", is being sampled (Under NDA), it's said by>folks I trust that it's performance is proving to be even>better than AMD's 40% improvement claim?>Only God knows what that means for FSX.>Barcelona will need an AM2+ socket or 1207 pin. Barcelona>(K10) has been on the drawing boards for sometime. Many, many,>improvements in it's architecture have been made. Suffice to>say, it will run FSX at a very good FPS rate, as does my AMD>Quad now.(SNIP)Actually, AMD has stated that for the desktop Barcelona's,(Ie, not the Opteron ones that use socket 1207, but rather the AM2+ chips) you'll be able to plug them into standard AM2 MoBos and vice versa (AM2 chips into AM2+ MoBos). The only difference pin-wise between the sockets is that the power for the memory controller on AM2+ can be seperated from the rest of the chip to allow for independant power levels so the cores and memory controller can work at different power levels/speeds. If you put an AM2+ chip into an AM2 MoBo you'll just lose the ability to do that... But if you're like me, you don't run Cool'n'Quiet or any of that sort of thing anyhow and don't care about power/speed throttling!OF course, them SAYING it can be done, and it actually working are usually 2 different things, but I'm holding out hope because I dropped $250 on my MB and don't really want to have to replace it when I get my AM2+ chip next winter...Also, keep in mind that AMD is only planning to release DUAL Cores for AM2+ on the desktop (at least initially). Quad cores will be released for Opteron S-1207 only.--Mike

You might want to give this story on NPR a listen regarding the use of light to process data.http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7314502Really gets the imagination going as to the possibilities. Also makes one humble thinking about what we don't know.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180