Hi all,I have been considering getting this, but I've read a lot of negative comments about "phantom keys".Not sure if the bugs have been worked out yet, Saitek site doesnt offer much info unless you register.Do you have opinions for or against this unit?I have their petals and X45 that I am happy with.

I reviewed the unit (see users reviews here at AVSIM)Phantom issues aside it has great potential.I ended up getting a full refund.The depressing thing is Saitek have let a potentially good product suffer from either a design issue or a quality assurance issue, the only thing the forums show is an increasing number of users reporting the same issues.My advice - still well clear till Feb / March when Saitek have either got there act together or the product is dead in the water.If your serious about a purchase I'd register with the Saitek forums and monitor the situation, so far it's not got more promising!RH

There's plenty of posts in this forum regarding the Saitek Pro Yoke.Here's a few of the recent posts:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=31873&page=http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=31098&page=I have newer unit, have had zero issues with it and couldn't be happier. For the price its a nice piece of hardware. Add an extra throttle quad and it makes the Pro Yoke Sytem even more realistic for multi-engine aircraft.

Ditto for me-a fantastic yoke!http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

Geof...I enjoy your posts very much. I hold a pilot certificate also, ATP,CFII, ASMEL. I have read a complaint or two about the Saitek yoke having s limited turning range right and left... From a pilot's perspective, does it spoil the experience at all? Do you ever hit the limit in any maneuvers? I would think that except for acrobatics, the 55 degrees or so range would be adequate... but I just wanted to hear an experienced pilot's perspective to be sure prior to plunking down the cash.Thank you so much. I think I'd rather fly your Baron rather than FSX!! ;^)Take care, Steve

It is limited -I don't know the exact degrees but about 45-50 degrees. Funny-I hadn't really noticed that!-of course in the vc you are seeing the yoke go the full range so perhaps the mind fills in the gap...kinda like the way with tracker ir you don't turn your head the full range. I have it mounted under my table so I actually kinda like not clunking my legs. I don't really do acrobatics-perhaps it would be a factor for someone there. Even with this compromise I think I'd still pick it over the chpro. Add the throttle quad that comes with it which is just much more robust and realistic I think it still wins.I guess the heaviness in both pitch and bank and more subtantial feel vs. the chpro which felt like nothing is more compelling to me, though I did miss greatly a gear/flap switch on the yoke making me get a goflight lgt to replace that-which also improves things a lot (A trim wheel is great).With gas prices lately I almost prefer fsx to the Baron! I remember your introduction and credentials-glad to have a much more experienced pilot in our ranks!http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/182080.jpg

Your lucky Geofa... One for having a yoke with no issues and Two having such a NICE Throttle Quad! Looks like you might have yanked that out of a real cockpit?Regarding the Saitek, I just hooked up my second. The first (a 051 s/n series), had the "phantom" key presses. So I exchanged it for a second one (a 050 series). Same issue.]But with further exploring this is what I am seeing. I can create the Phantom effect anytime I want to. Now I am not sure what others are seeing when they say Phantom key presses but mine changes the pilot's view. I can just quickly pull the yoke towards me and change my view! Ha! Yet I have deleted all my FS yoke axis assignments for this little experiment.So I went into the FS joystick controller assignments and just for kicks I selected the first item on the list to assign a button to from my yoke. Well I yanked back on the yoke and it assigned it Button #9! That's funny, because looking at the yoke setup screen there is NO Button #9?!?So I assigned button #9 to the "Concord's nose" selection and whala... the phantom view changes have appeared to stop. Now I am also in the process of setting it up using my FSUIPC but that could be the culprit so if anyone else is experiencing this this may serve as a work-around.

I just did your "assignment" and it did not happen to me. Just to be sure-pull on the yoke and that changes your view/key assignment?Could it be another controller like rudder pedals interfering?Or maybe quality control on Saiteks part...The Baron yoke was sent out of the blue by a fellow simmer who knew I was a Baron pilot-for free! If that doesn't raise our perception of humanity I don't know what will !http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

Yep, by pulling the yoke towards you. Now you must pull it all the way extended. I usually do it like a quick jerk. A little bit doesn't seem to do anything. But I can go into the FS control assignments and assign a BUTTON (not an axis) when I pull on it. Can assign it to anything just as if I was clicking a button. :) I would suspect that to be a firmware issue. Again, I do need to use it a bit longer to make any conclusive remarks but I will probably give Saitek a call on what I have found. Even with that, this is heads above my CH system which I have truly enjoyed for several years (Just installed the 2nd quadrant and what a nice look and feel). But I think CH sat on their laurels a bit too long and really need to do some catching up. If it wasn't for this "phantom fiasco" they really would be feeling a pinch in the bottom line I bet.

Geofa ...Thank you for your response. I still have my Logitech wireless joystick for acrobatics and for flying older taildraggers. Sounds like the Saitek is the way to go, if you can avoid the software/firmware glitches that some user experience with certain serial numbers and their personal setups.What a great mounting idea for the yoke!!My only problem is ... I have/had to share the computer desk with my wife and daughter. I bought another desktop computer for my daughter and she has moved out. Gotta be careful on how I "move out" my wife, though. She may move ME out!! That would be counter productive. ;^)Can you tell us about your throttle quadrant? I'm not quite "immersed" in the hobby yet, and am not familiar with all of the hardware. Where does that come from? I am familiar with the GoFlight brand from one of the catalogs. I will look at that stuff again ... a little expensive. I think your trim wheel would be fun. Is there a slider (buttons ... like on the old Sidewinder stick) on the right hand thumb for "electric trim," by any chance? I'm surprised they don't have an extra button or two to make the flap/gear (or whatever) assignments.Wonder where you are. I am in central Indiana (winter icing and IFR country!!)Take care, Steve

My advice is to steer clear completely of the Saitek system. I've had 2 and both went back because of the phantom button pushing issue -- the second one had one of the "clear" serial numbers too. The only support you'll get from Saitek is: "return to vendor originally purchased", which means too bad, pay for shipping both ways yourself. (I bought mine at Amazon because they pay for shipping both ways on defective products.) My CH yoke and throttle system may be all plastic and an old design, but at least the bloody thing doesn't send random commands to the sim without warning 50 feet above the runway threshold at the end of a 2 1/2 hour flight!Saitek's is a great looking and solidly built yoke, but they have really screwed this up, both from a design/manufacture standpoint and from a service standpoint. A lot of people don't have the problem, but a LOT do -- and Saitek has been unresponsive to those who do.Good luck.Chuck B.

I am real close-Michigan-also the land of winter icing and ifr!Most of my hardware is/was quite old and I have a ch throttle quad. A kind simmer who knew I flew a Baron emailed out of the blue about a year ago-said he had a real Baron quad and did I want it? So-I after getting the real quad-I connected it with rods from radio control airplanes to the ch throttle-and increased reality there.As far as a throttle though-you get a great one with the saitek-and if you want twin you can connect another one and have a very substantial throttle quad-that is the way I would go if doing it now.The goflight's are expensive-however I got mine on ebay for about half price. I wasn't happy with the flap switch (it either got damaged in shipping or wasn't in good shape) but a nice simmer here gave me a part number at radio shack for a new switch that cost $4 and I am now happy.Luckily on the mounting-we have a his/her computer setup. It actually does not get much in the way-and a wireless keyboard helps a lot. I did find though-the height seems more realistic, it is less rickety, and has a great feel. Hope you can work it out!Geofhttp://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

Well thanks for all the advice. I will NOT be buying this any time soon. This is too bad because I was looking forward to adding another dimension to my set up. I'll keep my eye on their development.I know it's hard this day and age, but one would think that Saitek would at least test the units before shipping on this particular project with its terrible history? it seams like this would cost them a little bit, but would pay off in the long run by keeping customers happy.

Thanks Geof!You gave me lots of food for thought. (like looking around for the goflight stuff, mounting the Saitek, etc.) I am ready to plunge through the uncertainty with all the phantom key talk and give it a try. I keep reading that the later models seem to be less trouble free. I think if I order from someone like PC-Aviator, they should be sure to have the ones that work right.I have a week off after New Year's Day and I will have time for it. My daughters are buying me the rudder pedals, and I should have enough Christmas cash to order the yoke. I've been playing at simming for about 9 or 10 years and I'm trying to become more serious. I've avoided rudder pedals for a long time because, the rudder response when I twisted my joy sticks seemed so unrealistic. And I figured the P-factor in the pedals wouldn't be modeled correctly ... that is -- varying pressures with various degrees of torque/assymetrical thrust at different low speed high power setting situations. For example, I can't imagine all of the various rudder pressures in a chandelle being modeled accureately. But the thing that was really keeping me from trying rudders, is that the pedals are independent rather than linked. I can't imagine what that will be like, but I'm ready to find out. I'm tired of trying to shoot cross wind landings while keeping the "right twist" on the joystick while slipping.Wonder what your impressions of the rudders are and how FS responds to the inputs? ... Do you have CH rudders or some of the really high price nice ones?One final query... Is there a switch on the Saitek yoke at the right thumb position to operate simulated electric trim. I would certainly miss that from the MS Sidewinder/Logitech wireless sticks I have.Thank you. I had no idea we were that close. I live below Indy about 35 miles. I work just 4 miles from the new 200 ft control tower at Indy. I try to keep ATC skills sharp by always monitoring a scanner on my desk. ;^)Thanks much,Steve

I was just in Indy a few weeks ago!Rudder pedals are the week link right now for me. I don't have the saitek so I don't know if they are better-I do have the ch.They give the coordination of course which is better than nothing but no forces. The ch are pretty spongh-I was considering trying the saitek but want to see them in person to see if they are an improvement at all. I know they have a tension adjustment on them which might help. I haven't been able to do chandelles very well except with a few planes like the realair260.The Saitek has a trim button on the left of the stick-good for me as that is where it is on my plane-but maybe bad for you. The hat switch is on the right which is taking a little getting used to for me after the ch one being on the other side.Hopefully if you get the yoke and don't like it you will be able to return it. I have no regrets-for the price I think it has a lot to offer-if it works!http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/