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Silverbird

Mach-1 Design Group FT. LAUDERDALE KFLL is out!

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I was just looking at this -- looks great. Will download and try tonight or tomorrow.Thank you, MD1!

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Looks great, now if we can just get Oliver to AES it we would be all set.Thanks guys,-PaulPrimary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E8500 468X9.5 @ 4.45Asus Maximus Extreme2 gigs OCZ Reaper DDR3 @1400Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigsDual VelociRaptor 10k 3gb/s RAID-0Dual WD Caviar 500 gig Raid-0Single 150Gig SATA2 Swap Drive28 inch LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sPCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLISaitek Yoke, Saitek Rudders, Go-Flight Flap,Gear and Trim Controlhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigsIntel E6600 @ 3.2Asus P5N32E-SLI Plus3 Gigs Kingston Hyper XXFX 8600 GTAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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Is it just me or is AES the most overrated and overpriced addon ever? ;-D Everywhere I go I see AES this scenery, AES that scenery. And I just don't get it. *Shrugs*By the way... Thank you Mach-1, very nice scenery!

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>Is it just me or is AES the most overrated and overpriced>addon ever? ;-D Everywhere I go I see AES this scenery, AES>that scenery. And I just don't get it. *Shrugs*>>By the way... Thank you Mach-1, very nice scenery!No, it's not just you. I am not a fan of this kind of nickle and dime "software service" crap at all . I will never support such a company. Having said that, I imagine the AES stuff has some appeal for those who have never seen an airport but, when you have spent your entire adult life working at one, watching jetways, belt loaders, and catering trucks drive up to a plane is less of a giggle. I just have to keep in mind that people have different interests than I do. If you want to pay for an airport simulator then have at it. For me, there are far better things to spend my money on and there are far too many developers engaging in this sort of piecemeal development scheme. "Buy this base pack and we promise to add on these other great things later". "Every switch and button is clickable in the VC", though they don't actually do anything unless you pay for the upgrade. "Completely updated for (insert your favorite FS version here)", when the package is in fact a seven year old product from three versions earlier with a few lines of code to "make it work". Now with FSX and to a lesser extent FS9, we're forced to buy the same package multiple times to cover different areas with scenery. In FSX, if you want better scenery, you need to buy a package for the US, one for Europe, one for Canada, and so on. You pay full price for them, even though the programs are identical, with the exception of the textures which could have been, and in the past would have been released as a simple free upgrade to users of the program. The truly sad part is that when those of us who have been around FS since the very beginning have the tamarity to complain about the decline of quality and comprehensiveness in payware offerings that we all enjoyed when this was "just a hobby", we are persecuted by newbies and kids as being unrealistic in our demands. Remember when folks developed something for FS because of a love of FS? Now, it seems, if you change the color of a halo bitmap, you're justified in charging for the thirty seconds of work you put in. As many would doubtless remind me, nothing in this world is free. I'm fairly certain that these same people would consider themselves ill used if we here in the AVSIM forum decided to only offer help to those willing to pay us a fee for the benefit of our expertise. Our only fee is a thank you, and sometimes we don't even get that. I'll bet they'd feel equally slighted if AVSIM charged a buck every time you accessed the library. This all reminds me of a line from the movie Braveheart. "You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Longshanks table that you've missed you're God given right to something better". For those who think that Payware developers, MS, and ACES are responsible for making FS what it is, please remember that were it not for the hardcore pilots and simmers like me, FS would have died a very long time ago. Likewise, ACES should realize that, while their supposed commitment to bringing new people to the genre is admirible, it is the hardcore folks; those whose requests and suggestions have been ignored, that have sustained the franchise for the last 25 years. They ignore us at their peril and that of FS. Third party developers should consider this too. In fact, it seems that some have realized that not producing add-ons for FS9 any longer was not a wise business decision and have reversed course on this. I apologize if I have given offense to anyone as it is not my intent. This has, admittedly, devolved into a rant on an issue that I generally keep my mouth shut on. Chalk it up to a crappy day I guess. I just had to get this off my chest. I'm certain I will regret posting this tomorrow. Oh well, C'est la vie.Best Regards,JeffOh yeah, BTW, I love Mach1 Design' airports. They are excellent and free. The best things in life are indeed free.

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AES Basepack is free to download... In fact, it has several airports supported for free (e.g. the freeware Boston scenery found here on this site).You only pay for what you WANT, and not things that are promised to be included later. Nothing personal, but yuou probably should understand what you're complaing about before you go on a 1,000 word rant about it. If it's not your cup of tea, then just don't buy it.EDIT:Just to add... I've been around these parts since 1998, and I too remember when everything was free. I for one am happy to pay for things that are of high quality and worth the price as it relates to my personal standards. If you're unhappy with people putting out low quality add-ons (or those that don't meet your value requirements), then put them out of business by not giving them your cash :)

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>AES Basepack is free to download... In fact, it has several>airports supported for free (e.g. the freeware Boston scenery>found here on this site).>>You only pay for what you WANT, and not things that are>promised to be included later. Nothing personal, but yuou>probably should understand what you're complaing about before>you go on a 1,000 word rant about it. If it's not your cup of>tea, then just don't buy it.>>>EDIT:>>Just to add... I've been around these parts since 1998, and I>too remember when everything was free. I for one am happy to>pay for things that are of high quality and worth the price as>it relates to my personal standards. If you're unhappy with>people putting out low quality add-ons (or those that don't>meet your value requirements), then put them out of business>by not giving them your cash :)>"I'm certain I will regret posting this tomorrow." My AVSIM epitaph. :-bang Turns out it didn't take that long.I'm going to regret this too. Well, not so much.For the record, I did say "I just have to keep in mind that people have different interests than I do. If you want to pay for an airport simulator then have at it." I think if you re-read my post, you'll see that my criticisms were not directed at AES specifically. I never criticised their product as I don't use it. I don't comment on software I don't use. The original question was one of concept and not content. I mentioned them once in response to the question and moved on to a broader scope. In fact I didn't mention any other developer specifically. There are good developers that I support vehemently. There are bad ones that alot of us know about. But, far too aften, a member' first post here is to find help with something that, had they come here first, they never would have spent their cash on in the first place. Read the posts. There are products people new to FS are still getting burned with. People believe the marketing hype. My point was that not everything done for FS is worth paying for and in many cases things that we took for granted as free in the past, we now have no choice but to pay for. I implied further, that this nickle and dime piecemeal approach has degraded the quality of add-ons and, if it continues, will be the downfall of FS. My opinion. How many add-ons have we all purchased in which the only thing high quality about it was the price tag? There was a day when updates were to add new features and a couple of bug fixes. How many developers have we seen use this approach to justify releasing bug riden, poorly executed software. Often with little or no after sale support. I apologize for having "the tamarity to complain about the decline of quality and comprehensiveness in payware offerings that we all enjoyed when this was just a hobby."I apologize for suggesting, in a veiled way, that we all vote with our wallets and support only quality developers, and spread the word about the crap.And I apologize to the OP for inadvertantly hijacking the thread.I think you'll find that I apologized to everyone else in my first post should I have caused offense. This includes you.Oh, and nothing personal but, when you too choose to criticize others in a post, no matter how politely offered, you'll find signing your name may be perceived as a bit more respectful.Regards,JeffPS. "AES Basepack is free to download..." Alot of things are free to download, it's using it that costs money."... before you go on a 1,000 word rant..." It was 715 not including the system specs, but I'll try to keep the limit in mind.

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Agreed on all points and no need to apologize...you have your opinion, and I have mine...we can all hug and be friends at the end of the day :) That said, I do apologize to the OP for the perpetuated hijack and for whatever happened to my signature... it should say:JeffKDEN

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>Agreed on all points and no need to apologize...you have your>opinion, and I have mine...we can all hug and be friends at>the end of the day :) That said, I do apologize to the OP for>the perpetuated hijack and for whatever happened to my>signature... it should say:>>Jeff>KDEN>>:-beerchug It's Miller, eh... It's InBev time!16th Street Mall, on me!Jeff

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> AES Basepack is free to download...Almost an automated response to any AES criticism. But it was not my intention to have a huge discussion about AES. Did a bit of math once about the cost of upgrading all the available airports and the result was staggering. And it's mostly the same people who start talking about an AES upgrade, so it's not just one or two airports they enable. I wonder if they ever do the math. I think it's better for them not to. ;-)Anyhoo...> "I'm certain I will regret posting this tomorrow." >> Turns out it didn't take that long.LOL! I get that same feeling every now and then, but venting's good! In moderation, just like beer. ;-)

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Well I'm an airline pilot that has been around watching jetways, belt loaders, and catering trucks drive up to planes for quite some time now and all I got to says is...AES RULES! :DMARCUS

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AES has never contacted me so I don't think they're interested in doing my airports.

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Overrated, no. AES has become a "must have" add-on for airline pilots because it adds that touch of extra realism to the best-of-the-best airports such as DreamTeam, FlyTampa, Aerosoft, ImagineSim and others. It truely sets the stage for your airliner flights both visually and mentally.Overpriced, not really. AES is customized for each airports so the gates are not generic, and is tuned so that pushback and followme functionality is intelligent and tuned to each individual airport. Add, de-icing + boarding / deplaning simulation and ground crews that are custom to different aircraft types and models, AES is a effectively a "ground crew simulation".AES has been constantly upgraded and enhanced for "free" and you can pick and choose which airports you want to enhance. Sure, if you are like me and want it at every airport you own and to which you fly, the costs can run into a couple hundred dollars but whether its worth it or not depends on you.For me, flying into an AES equipped airport puts that "punctuation" at the end of my flight as I arrive at the gate and it is realistically guided in and deplaned and serviced. Same thing at departure when the jetway moves away and the ground crew has cleared the area, it gets my heart pumping for the flight to come.AES is that added touch of realism that once you have indulged, any airport without it rings hollow. THAT is why everyone who has experienced AES wants all of their airports equipped with it. It truly does become a defacto standard that you just can't live without.Regards,Mike T.

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>AES has never contacted me so I don't think they're>interested in doing my airports. Jaxan I hope they do contact you, it would be nice having some of your scenerys with there features some of the guys here posted at there fourm requesting it. I would like to say that having worked at the ramp and seeing countless amounts of bags jet-ways driving belt loaders push-back trucks tugs etc etc that I really do enjoy aes. and at least to me it adds some life to the airport terminals. but I can understand why some people are not into that kind of detail or eye candy.

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Thanks for another great scenery! I really like the addition of the cruise ships and freighters...DJ

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Well said MikeDid a>bit of math once about the cost of upgrading all the available>airports and the result was staggering. And it's mostly the>same people who start talking about an AES upgrade, so it's>not just one or two airports they enable. I wonder if they>ever do the math. I think it's better for them not to. ;-)Why do people care about how others spend their money? If you don't like it fine don't buy it but please don't worry about my math; how I spend my hard earned money; or which airports I CHOOSE to ask for AES ask thanks ;).As for the cost you choose the aiport (s) you want you don't have to buy them all so the perceived value is truly in the eye of the beholder. No to mention, the pushback alone with different tugs and precision guiding to the appropriate taxiway makes it worth the $$ alone. Or how about being pushed back and then towed out of the alley at KEWR just like they do it in real life? To me, that is realism as is the jetway aligning perfectly with my a/c, whichever one I am flying and whichever gate I am vectored to. You can always run AES without having any vehicles service your a/c but the jetway/pushback features alone make it worth the money to me.Glad you guys feel better for venting about it and letting the forums know you feel it is overpriced though; you really added a positive tone to a thread saying thank you, well done...Paul the always AES requesting must have failed 2nd grade math simmer...Primary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E8500 468X9.5 @ 4.45Asus Maximus Extreme2 gigs OCZ Reaper DDR3 @1400Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigsDual VelociRaptor 10k 3gb/s RAID-0Dual WD Caviar 500 gig Raid-0Single 150Gig SATA2 Swap Drive28 inch LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sPCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLISaitek Yoke, Saitek Rudders, Go-Flight Flap,Gear and Trim Controlhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigsIntel E6600 @ 3.2Asus P5N32E-SLI Plus3 Gigs Kingston Hyper XXFX 8600 GTAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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Paul, this thread didn't really go sour until your post.And we've all thanked Mach-1. And even if a person said he didn't like Mach-1 sceneries, that shouldn't be a problem, right? Or are we only allowed to dump on CaptainSim and friends. And not on anyone else and certainly not on freeware developers. What is it with all this political correctness lately?At the end of the day I'm not concerned with how you spend your money. I'm concerned about the average price of addons, which has only gone up in recent years. Every now and then your hear someone say something about the price, there's a modest outcry when PMDG changes from Dollar to Euro overnight, but people keep buying...Sure, you can choose which airports to enable, but most people aren't gonna stop there. Like Mike said, a couple hundred dollars to enable a good deal. A couple hundred dollars?! A couple hundred dollars for a flight simulator addon?You know, if there's this much money among the average flight simulator enthusiast, why don't we start work on a rival to Microsoft's FS. This idea has been mentioned before. We've got enough skilled developers, we've apparently got more than enough funds. Just imagagine how much you would be willing to spend on an entire sim that would get it right if you are willing to part ways with a couple hundred dollars on one addon that amounts to only a small percentage of sim time (unless you're doing really shorthaul flights).Addon pricing is starting to be a lot like oil pricing and well, you know how that works...

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Sorry if I soured the thread, I thought it went bad with a "715" word rant against AES and its pricing ;) As for prices going up, I guess I have just become immune, it cost me more for electric, my car was $28 to fill when I first got it, $63 now... Milk costs more, so if all of these things cost us the consumer more why shouldn't developers be raising their prices to offset the costs they have for those same items? People have to make money and developers don't spend all of those hours working to not be able to afford their own gas at the end of the week so as prices go up around us I find it natural that FS developers have raised their prices.As for our own sim, why don't we all just finance X-Plane ;) And yes, I think that FS is in large part like real world flying, an expensive hobby that to date has never left me regretting the money spent ;) Primary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E8500 468X9.5 @ 4.45Asus Maximus Extreme2 gigs OCZ Reaper DDR3 @1400Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigsDual VelociRaptor 10k 3gb/s RAID-0Dual WD Caviar 500 gig Raid-0Single 150Gig SATA2 Swap Drive28 inch LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sPCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLISaitek Yoke, Saitek Rudders, Go-Flight Flap,Gear and Trim Controlhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigsIntel E6600 @ 3.2Asus P5N32E-SLI Plus3 Gigs Kingston Hyper XXFX 8600 GTAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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To an extent I can understand a slight increase, but we are talking about mostly download products that are made behind a PC. So what kind of costs have increased exactly? But perhaps that is for another time. Wouldn't want to drag this off-topic any further. ;-)

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Looked at it, liked it, BUT! I use Freeflow Florida, along with it's AI. I wish the scenery was confined to just the Airport area. the static Ships and stuff overlap the Freeflow scenery. While this is a nice job on the Airport. It's not much of an improvement over J C McCormicks KFll, which while a frame Hog, seems very adequate for me. Don't know for sure but, this problem might exist for Ultimate Terrain also. Now if there is a way of eliminating the static stuff, I could make a closer comparison. Excellent Effort.Bill *:-*

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>So what kind of costs have increased exactly?Inflation, demand, and increased complexity of add-ons.Jeff H.KDEN

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Bill, You can remove the port stuff as its a separate BGL, but I goofed with the ships as they are part of the vehicles BGL, so to delete them you would lose all the ground equipment as well. But if you want to remove it, here is a list of the port files...fllpe.bglfllpe2.bglfllpe_VTPL.bglfllpe_LWM2.bgland then KFLL_Vehix.bgl for the ships. If you want, you can email me and I'll send you a new KFLL_Vehix file without the ships.

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