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vonmar

KSNA max landing weight?

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Looking at KSNA airport diagram and its runway weightbearing capacity information.Max landing weight rwy 19R for (D95) is 95000 lbs.I seen on FlightAware that 737-800's are landing there.But their empty weight is 93000!So my thought is .. how do they do it? They wouldbe landing with few people, bags and no fuel. Airlinecould not make money that way.So, my second thought is I am not looking at the data correctly!

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My info shows the B738 to be around 91,000 empty, but it is also important to note that arrangements with the airport can be made to land heavier aircraft on the runways. There's nothing inherently unsafe about landing an aircraft that is heavier than what's in the AF/D, but it does take it's toll on the runway after a while. Likely, the airport may charge a heftier landing fee to offset the wear. Also, was it an airline operating the jets? Or was it a charter service?----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satellite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004, MIDCON P-401"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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John,Thanks for the information.My empty weight was for 737-800, my error there.I went here:http://flightaware.com/statistics/ifr-route/Then down a bit on the left side type in KSNA into "Airport Code Box"Then click on "View Airport Activity"Shows which airlines and aircraft types are landing.There are even some 757's arriving.Seems like alot of overweights are landing.

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I think there's got to be something we're not realizing about this, landing fees, different rules for different operators, higher landing fees as already suggested, something. Because it says ST121 for 1L/19R which is almost 7,000 lbs less than an empty 757-200, and of course planes don't land empty.The Airport Facility Directory doesn't make any mention of max landing weights though.Edit, just did some more research and it seems that the RWBC (runway weight bearing capacity) can be exceeded by 50% with the permission of the airport.

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I've flown in and out of KSNA plenty of times in B757's from both Continental and Delta. They do high performance noise abatement take offs on that runway as well. Makes me think your afcad is wrong.Eric

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>I've flown in and out of KSNA plenty of times in B757's from>both Continental and Delta. They do high performance noise>abatement take offs on that runway as well. Makes me think>your afcad is wrong.>>EricLooking at KSNA airport diagram and the runway weightbearing capacity information for various aircraft types that is noted on the diagram.What do you get for the max weight of a B757?And, also, wondering what an AFCAD has to do with runway weightbearing capacity?

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You're reading one wheel assembly group as representing the total weight of the plane, have you forgotten about the nose wheel assembly?A single tandem assembly, like a 737, can carry 121k. A 757, with a dual tandem, can carry 152k.Don't forget the nose can bear weight also.

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The nose gear means moot for the rating as it's not a measure of the weight of the plane on the runway, but the impact force of the mains on touchdown which will be more than the actual weight of the plane.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satellite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004, MIDCON P-401"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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>The Airport Facility Directory doesn't make any mention of max>landing weights though.All the AFDs I've ever bought when I was flight training had the landing weights in them. I also happen to have an old Southwestern US AF/D that I got for flight-simming (FBO's just toss them in the dumpster after they expire). It's the 19 FEB 2004 TO 15 APR 2004 issue and has this data for SNA's 01L-19R:[blockquote]RWY 01L-19R: H5701X150 (ASPH-GRVD) S-70, D-95, DT-152 HIRL RWL 01L: VASI(V4L)-GA 3.0

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>>The Airport Facility Directory doesn't make any mention of>max>>landing weights though.>>All the AFDs I've ever bought when I was flight training had>the landing weights in them. I also happen to have an old>Southwestern US AF/D that I got for flight-simming (FBO's just>toss them in the dumpster after they expire). It's the 19 FEB>2004 TO 15 APR 2004 issue and has this data for SNA's>01L-19R:>>[blockquote]RWY 01L-19R: H5701X150 (ASPH-GRVD) S-70,>D-95, DT-152 HIRL> RWL 01L: VASI(V4L)-GA 3.0

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>>The Airport Facility Directory doesn't make any mention of>max>>landing weights though.>>All the AFDs I've ever bought when I was flight training had>the landing weights in them. I also happen to have an old>Southwestern US AF/D that I got for flight-simming (FBO's just>toss them in the dumpster after they expire). It's the 19 FEB>2004 TO 15 APR 2004 issue and has this data for SNA's>01L-19R:>>[blockquote]RWY 01L-19R: H5701X150 (ASPH-GRVD) S-70,>D-95, DT-152 HIRL> RWL 01L: VASI(V4L)-GA 3.0

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I think it's pretty clear that everyone is reading the data correctly - and it's also pretty clear that there have to be some special rules or exceptions which we do not know.

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Am I missing something?I can't see any reference on the FAA Airport Diagram (SW3 25 Sep 2008 to 23 Oct 2008) to weights for John Wayne Airport (SNA).Also AirNav states:"Weight bearing capacity: Single wheel: 70.0 Double wheel: 95.0 Double tandem: 152.0 "http://www.airnav.com/airport/KSNA

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>Am I missing something?>>I can't see any reference on the FAA Airport Diagram (SW3 25>Sep 2008 to 23 Oct 2008) to weights for John Wayne Airport>(SNA).>>Also AirNav states:>>"Weight bearing capacity: Single wheel: 70.0 >Double wheel: 95.0 >Double tandem: 152.0 ">>http://www.airnav.com/airport/KSNA> >>MGH,OK,I went to airnav.com and clicked on the pdf file link for the KSNA airport diagram.Next to the EXECUTIVE HANGERS to the right it says:RWY 1L-19RS70, D95, ST121, DT152Note: DT = Double TandemThese are MAXIMUM FAA landing weights x1000 lbs for KSNA airport runways. Each airport will have its own max landing weights for these aircraft.So a 737 is a D95, max landing weight = 95000 lbs.An empty 737 weighs 81800 Lbs, 737-800 = 92748 lbs.A 767 is a DT152, max landing weight = 152000 lbs.The Level-D 767 is 197000 lbs Empty!So, 767's should not be "legally", landing there !!

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I got curious, so I asked a knowledgeable retired ATP FS'er. The weight limits are per wheel assembly. The 757 has two DT (dual tandems), which means it would have a load limit of 304k # (152x2). It's MTOW is under this limit.Thanks again for the information.

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