Hello,

As someone who spends eight months every year earning a living on the seas and the other four months living a stone's throw away from the North Sea I beg to differ. "Northern Hemisphere" seas most definitely do appear blue. In cloudy or dull weather they appear grey, and the only time I have ever seen brown seas is in esturial waters, or very close to the coast on a stormy day when the weather churns up the sea bed.

I agree ... Retired 2Nd Engineer .. merchant navy .Good speedRegards.Gus

Well lads, the author has asked me to tell you this..........................................

Yep, once again, posters and their righteous indignation have managed to force a freeware author to call it quits, on this occasion in record time. Thankfully, I got the package when I could. Unfortunately, any updates for the few minor issues there are will never be fixed. And I'd be willing to bet that most of the negative posters are just as guilty as they assume that the author is, in other ways.

Nobody has forced the author to quit anything, his own methodology of potentially not obtaining clearance to use everything in the compilation - as stated in the compilation's read me file - is what has garnered criticism. As such, that criticism is not mean, but entirely justified, and should be regarded as a constructive observation as to how it might best be remedied, in seeking such permissions, or altering the content so that no such issue exists.It's a fair enough observation; not wanting to end up with a compilation of stuff which may include elements in contravention with the wishes or stipulations of the originators is not in the least bit self-righteous or mean, and should have simply been addressed. Anyone can make a mistake, and I suspect that enthusiasm for the compilation got in the way of best practices, but that should perhaps be admitted, corrected, and all would be well. Instead we find a lot of rebuttals to this observation via a messenger, dubiously listed as 'facts'. Facts or no, one thing that is not in doubt is, if you cannot be certain of the origin of some source files when making a compilation, then simply assuming it will be alright, is most certainly not an acceptable practice.To try and flip the argument and accuse the people who pointed this out of being 'sad', of not being 'genuine decent flightsimmers', of being akin to the hackers who took out AVSIM, and numerous other insults, then to further claim that these are all 'facts' in an attempt to divert attention from inappropriate working methodologies is extremely petulant. This is made worse by falsely claiming that every aspect of the compilation has been credited to its originators, when the 'read me' clearly states otherwise, as the author apparently found it 'a nightmare' to bother with ensuring he had the relevant permissions. It may indeed be a nightmare, but finding that something will be hard work is no excuse for cutting corners.I have no axe to grind with the author in creating a compilation, so long as he ensures it has all the relevant permissions, but I certainly do take issue with having such insults leveled at me and others for merely pointing out that doing so might not be a bad idea. If somebody wants to do a compilation of freeware and ensures he has the permission of all the authors whose work comprises that compilation, then great, fantastic, not to mention highly philanthropic and always welcome; but to circumvent such permissions and then expect to be universally praised for it, and retire in a fit of pique and a tirade of insults when such praise is not forthcoming, is at best childish, and at worst lacking consideration for other freeware developers whose work might have been plagiarised.What would have been a more mature response to such criticism, would be to re-examine the content, be absolutely sure of its origins and permissions, correct any lapses or issues, and then to update the read me file which comes with the compilation, so that users may be assured that they have something which is entirely legitimate in its sourcing. If that is done, then I'll be the first to praise such selfless efforts for the flight sim community.Al

Nobody has forced the author to quit anything, his own methodology of potentially not obtaining clearance to use everything in the compilation - as stated in the compilation's read me file - is what has garnered criticism. As such, that criticism is not mean, but entirely justified, and should be regarded as a constructive observation as to how it might best be remedied, in seeking such permissions, or altering the content so that no such issue exists.It's a fair enough observation; not wanting to end up with a compilation of stuff which may include elements in contravention with the wishes or stipulations of the originators is not in the least bit self-righteous or mean, and should have simply been addressed. Anyone can make a mistake, and I suspect that enthusiasm for the compilation got in the way of best practices, but that should perhaps be admitted, corrected, and all would be well. Instead we find a lot of rebuttals to this observation via a messenger, dubiously listed as 'facts'. Facts or no, one thing that is not in doubt is, if you cannot be certain of the origin of some source files when making a compilation, then simply assuming it will be alright, is most certainly not an acceptable practice.To try and flip the argument and accuse the people who pointed this out of being 'sad', of not being 'genuine decent flightsimmers', of being akin to the hackers who took out AVSIM, and numerous other insults, then to further claim that these are all 'facts' in an attempt to divert attention from inappropriate working methodologies is extremely petulant. This is made worse by falsely claiming that every aspect of the compilation has been credited to its originators, when the 'read me' clearly states otherwise, as the author apparently found it 'a nightmare' to bother with ensuring he had the relevant permissions. It may indeed be a nightmare, but finding that something will be hard work is no excuse for cutting corners.I have no axe to grind with the author in creating a compilation, so long as he ensures it has all the relevant permissions, but I certainly do take issue with having such insults leveled at me and others for merely pointing out that doing so might not be a bad idea. If somebody wants to do a compilation of freeware and ensures he has the permission of all the authors whose work comprises that compilation, then great, fantastic, not to mention highly philanthropic and always welcome; but to circumvent such permissions and then expect to be universally praised for it, and retire in a fit of pique and a tirade of insults when such praise is not forthcoming, is at best childish, and at worst lacking consideration for other freeware developers whose work might have been plagiarised.What would have been a more mature response to such criticism, would be to re-examine the content, be absolutely sure of its origins and permissions, correct any lapses or issues, and then to update the read me file which comes with the compilation, so that users may be assured that they have something which is entirely legitimate in its sourcing. If that is done, then I'll be the first to praise such selfless efforts for the flight sim community.Al

Al, you have really surprised me with your comments.In the early days, before you appeared, Avsim was the most famous location for freeware. It is these wonderful people that have made this hobby great. Payware are just professional companies set up to give us even more excellence and to enhance flightsim to the level that it is today.You have dissected with long words that I am sure the author wouldn't understand any way, his work without foundation. Not only you but a couple of others too.For a representative of Avsim, you should look at your enthusiasm for this hobby and look in the mirror at you attitude.On the other website, Howards Mix has had a much more appreciative response by grateful people. Here seems to be a place where criticism is an unappreciated art.I wonder sometimes what ever happened to the word 'Thank you, I hear it less and less in todays take all and give nothing society. :(

For a representative of Avsim, you should look at your enthusiasm for this hobby and look in the mirror at you attitude.

The patience and good sense Al has shown in this thread reveal just how healthy his attitude is.

I wonder sometimes what ever happened to the word 'Thank you

It became two words.

From what I've seen at "the other site", "Howard's Mix" received a very similar reception. The difference seems to be that when the issue of unknown/un-credited origins was brought up, nobody had a tantrum about it there. Now, it appears people are having issues with autogen being put in odd spots. :idk: Anyway, I've never understood it when a freeware author throws a hissy fit becuase they get some criticism. It seems to me that theres only two reasons for doing the work and then releasing it publicly (since money isn't involved) - either you truly enjoy doing the work itself so much that that is the real reward and you just figure maybe somebody else will enjoy it too, or you simply want adulation. If your reason is the first, then who cares about a bit of criticism? Just ignore the critics and talk with the folks who like what you've done. I mean in every case over the past few years where some freeware author has "left the community" in a huff due to all the criticism he's received, that same author has had a fairly huge and vocal cadre of strong supporters who profess an appreciation of his work. Why not focus on those individuals and simply ignore the nay-sayers? Now, if otoh the reason for doing the work is to have people tell you how wonderful you are, well then I think perhaps the community will survive without you...

Al, you have really surprised me with your comments.In the early days, before you appeared, Avsim was the most famous location for freeware. It is these wonderful people that have made this hobby great. Payware are just professional companies set up to give us even more excellence and to enhance flightsim to the level that it is today.You have dissected with long words that I am sure the author wouldn't understand any way, his work without foundation. Not only you but a couple of others too.For a representative of Avsim, you should look at your enthusiasm for this hobby and look in the mirror at you attitude.On the other website, Howards Mix has had a much more appreciative response by grateful people. Here seems to be a place where criticism is an unappreciated art.I wonder sometimes what ever happened to the word 'Thank you, I hear it less and less in todays take all and give nothing society. :(

In the early days before 'Chock' appeared, I was a member of AVSIM under another name. Do not presume that because my current AVSIM ID commenced in 2006, that this is when I began flight simming, or is representative of when I began contributing freeware. I'm well aware of AVSIM's freeware legacy and am a great admirer of both it, and especially of the people who work hard to maintain it, who do not receive the plaudits of the creators of those contents, but give their time all the same. I may have held a pilot's license for over ten years, but I was flying home computer simulators and making stuff for them long before I got that license!Before you throw the 'take all' accusation at me and others, you might like to note that you can include me in the numbers of people who produce freeware; when the AVSIM file library comes back on line, you can check that out if you wish - just do a search on my name - if you do, you will find freeware original aircraft, repaints, ground scenery etc produced by me, going back to FS95 compatibility if I recall correctly, and the stuff I have produced is not just for FS, nor limited to AVSIM or flight sims either, you can find repaints and files for a whole host of simulations which I have produced, and every single one of them has been free.If you don't believe me, here's a video of one of my repaints for an aircraft in Silent Wings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V64FNviE4kgI do not get paid for writing for AVSIM, and like everyone else who produces stuff for AVSIM or who works very hard in the background to keep it running, it involves a lot of work and a lot of time. That represents a commitment to contributing to the flight sim community too, so don't underestimate that aspect, or assume that my opinion in this particular instance is indicative of a lack of respect for freeware producers at large. You will notice I and many others don't stop there either, I have begun writing stuff for the new AVSIM Tutorial system too, in fact I put a new tutorial on there yesterday if you'd care to look. Or to put it another way, I am well aware that what people do for free can have tremendous value and be of help, because I try to do that myself, and I can appreciate the time and effort it takes.Allow me to conclude by giving you an example to compare; imagine that instead of spending the time to research a product for review, I were to copy and paste some info from someone else's review, and then not bother to credit them as the source, because I couldn't remember where I got that stuff from and couldn't be bothered to find out. It might make a great review, but do you think that would be okay? and more importantly, would you expect a person whom I failed to credit to thank me?It's not about whether I think someone's efforts are worthy of use, but about whether they are worthy of praise when they may have crossed a line, of which I and many others do not approve. And me being an 'AVSIM representative' does not place any constraints on my moral standards with regard to that, nor should it. You are absolutely right to expect that AVSIM staff, in any capacity, should regard their status as being an ambassador for the AVSIM site and endeavour to maintain high standards, and believe me, I do take that responsibility very seriously indeed, but I would like to think my opinion on this matter is not at odds with the very high standards of AVSIM in a wider sense.If the compilation is altered to ensure no such line is being crossed, I'll happily praise it, the author, and the efforts involved in producing it.Al

Alan,Thank you for your reply but first of all, I never accused you of anything. I was generalizing about the general attitude of people that have never done anything themselves and coming on here just to criticize what other people have done to make this hobby great.You appeared to me, to take the 'devils advocate' view too.Let me explain a little for you and the doubters?Howard never comes onto forums, because he suffers mild dyslexia he prefers not to.If you look at our website pictures, in my signature, you will notice one picture of a set-up with a lot of screens. that is Howards set-up.He fly's VFR ALL the time. He went into the default files and tweaked them using a bit of ingenuity. Some worked, others didn't. He ran his work on his computer and showed us members what he had achieved and we was impressed.So, Howard decided to share his works with us and promptly enclosed his settings onto a disk that was made available to us for free.I asked Howard if he would make it available to the FS Community by uploading it to Avsim and Flightsim.com. He eventually agreed. I think now it was a mistake.The reason he put a disclaimer in the readme was just in case he had copied anyone else's work and if he had, he didn't realize that. It most certainly wasn't his intention but he mentioned it with a clear statement (not the thing, you'll agree that a pirate would do) referring to this file.Had he sold this for profit I would have half expected the knocks that this file has produced. The fact that nobody has proven that he actually has used others work is a justifiable reason for the knockers' to retract their flaming.Thanks again Alan for your intelligent and friendly comment.

tl;dr

oh brother... :(

If nice, well done, free and friendly I dont mind how it was done. At least a lot of simmers dont have to spend time and money and chose p2p. So stop "castrating" free developers that make our lives easier nowadays. Today we have FS9 and FSX and tomorrow another or none so lets have a nice flight. today. Sorry if I offended somebody. :(

Hello,File again available and also a upgrade ! on flightsim.comRegards.Gus.

I tried the revised release. I'm very impressed so far. I tested it in the Alaskan Tundra. What an improvement! Improved water textures are really nice. Howard, if you're out there: Good job ol' boy!

Hello,File again available and also a upgrade ! on flightsim.comRegards.Gus.

Good, good !!!! :(

Hello,File again available and also a upgrade ! on flightsim.comRegards.Gus.

Can we have a link please,

Hello allI installed this on my pc and now can't get FS9 to run. I click on the exe and my pointer disappears after about 10 secondsand the pc just sits there doing what appears to be nothing. Very little HD activity. Am I missing something? Does it take a really long time to load? And where are the backup files it claims to make?TIA