Hi,I apologise if that was asked before, but here is my question. I was planning a trip from an airport (located in Europe) to St. Maarten - TNCM. And I was wondering how to calculate ETOPS (or is it preselected e.g. 180 min). So, if MD-11 has ETOPS of 180 min my flight is possible but if it has 120 min ETOPS I'm not able to fly to TNCM (in that case I should go to New York first and than fly to TNCM).Thank you for your answers,Aljaz Prislan

ETOPS is Extended Twin Range Operations. It only applies to twins, and not the 3 engined MD11.

Yes, I noticed, but too late :( So how does the MD-11 flyes over the ocean without the ETOPS (what does it use instead?)EDIT: I've found LROPS. Is that it?So, if that is it, what LROPS MD-11 uses?RegardsAljaz

Yes, I noticed, but too late :( So how does the MD-11 flyes over the ocean without the ETOPS (what does it use instead?)EDIT: I've found LROPS. Is that it?So, if that is it, what LROPS MD-11 uses?RegardsAljaz

Nope...there is nothing needed. Its because the plane has more than propulsion sources rather than one. The purpose of ETOPS was only intended for twins because when one engine goes out there is the risk that the second engine would die and they needed a failsafe i.e. 180 min. on one engine over water

Hi,I apologise if that was asked before, but here is my question. I was planning a trip from an airport (located in Europe) to St. Maarten - TNCM. And I was wondering how to calculate ETOPS (or is it preselected e.g. 180 min). So, if MD-11 has ETOPS of 180 min my flight is possible but if it has 120 min ETOPS I'm not able to fly to TNCM (in that case I should go to New York first and than fly to TNCM).Thank you for your answers,Aljaz Prislan

I know ETOPS doesn't apply to the MD-11, but in general terms, a 120 minutes ETOPS limit equates to about 1,000 nautical miles in a commercial twin jet (2hours at 500 nmph ground speed) and a route from Europe to TNCM would always be within 1,000 nautical miles of Ireland or Portugal, then the Azores, then Burmuda and finally St Maarten, so you would not, in fact, have any problem as long as you stay out of strong trade winds :)

Thank you for your explanation, but when I was looking at the map, where you can see a world with ETOPS, I saw that if 120 min ETOPS are used, I can't go to TNCM without crossing the spot whic is not covered with ETOPS: Gr, Aljaz

Thank you for your explanation, but when I was looking at the map, where you can see a world with ETOPS, I saw that if 120 min ETOPS are used, I can't go to TNCM without crossing the spot whic is not covered with ETOPS: Gr, Aljaz

don't worry about it...the md-11 doesn't have etops.

Thanks to all, especially to you, Steven.Looking forward for this flight :( Aljaz

EROPS is, I believe, a proprosed system that would affect all airliners. It seems to focus more on fire suppresion and emergency oxygen supply for 3+ engine jets.

ETOPS is Extended Twin Range Operations. It only applies to twins, and not the 3 engined MD11.

The 180 minute ETOPS rule applies to three and four engine aircraft under Part 25 and Part 33. The exception to this rule is frieghters.ETOPS - Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards.Bill Bridges

The ETOPS word stands for: Extended range Twin engine OPerationS,It means the Operation of twin Engine aircraft over a route that contains a point further than one hour's flying time, at the approved one engine inoperative cruise speed from an adequate airport. ETOPS includes operations over remote land and water. It is to provide very high levels of safety while facilitating the use of twinjets on routes that were previously restricted to three- and four-engine aircraft. I quote this from my ETOPS training manual. ETOPS aircraft are for example the Airbus A330, Boeing 767-300 and the Boeing 777. There is three ETOPS rules when One engine has failed on a twin Engine aircraft: * NON-ETOPS (60 minutes diversion time from adequate airport), "aprox 100 miles flying"* ETOPS 120 (120 minutes diversion time from adequate airport)* ETOPS 180 (180 minutes diversion time from adequate airport)So the MD-11 has nothing to do with the ETOPS rules because it has Three engine's.Greeting MarkAircraft Ground Engineer B737 and B767-300

The ETOPS word stands for: Extended range Twin engine OPerationS,It means the Operation of twin Engine aircraft over a route that contains a point further than one hour's flying time, at the approved one engine inoperative cruise speed from an adequate airport. ETOPS includes operations over remote land and water. It is to provide very high levels of safety while facilitating the use of twinjets on routes that were previously restricted to three- and four-engine aircraft. I quote this from my ETOPS training manual. ETOPS aircraft are for example the Airbus A330, Boeing 767-300 and the Boeing 777. There is three ETOPS rules when One engine has failed on a twin Engine aircraft: * NON-ETOPS (60 minutes diversion time from adequate airport), "aprox 100 miles flying"* ETOPS 120 (120 minutes diversion time from adequate airport)* ETOPS 180 (180 minutes diversion time from adequate airport)So the MD-11 has nothing to do with the ETOPS rules because it has Three engine's.Greeting MarkAircraft Ground Engineer B737 and B767-300

Mark,it doesnt work under ETOPS rules but EROPS ones, plus some states have misc. rules and ie. in Canada the 747-400 operated under 180 min due to fire protection so even the three or four may have some "ETOPS" constraints ...!!!!plus i have seen ETOPS manuals from Boeing including the DC10 and MD11 and the twins versus 747 ... due to some states limiting the three or two engines ...!!!i must add you forgot the ETOPS 207 (207 minutes diversion time from adequate airport) only B777 is qualified for ...!!!

Mark,it doesnt work under ETOPS rules but EROPS ones, plus some states have misc. rules and ie. in Canada the 747-400 operated under 180 min due to fire protection so even the three or four may have some "ETOPS" constraints ...!!!!plus i have seen ETOPS manuals from Boeing including the DC10 and MD11 and the twins versus 747 ... due to some states limiting the three or two engines ...!!!i must add you forgot the ETOPS 207 (207 minutes diversion time from adequate airport) only B777 is qualified for ...!!!

Hi (?!!)EROPS rules are superseded by ETOPS rules as far as I known, I life in Europe and I work under EASA regulations, EROPS doesn't apply for European registrated aircraft's, ETOPS rules does not apply for aircraft's that have three or more Engine's. ETOPS will be replaced by LROPS in the near futher and will apply for all aircrafts. ETOPS rules is to make sure that if there is a Engine system failure it doesn't also occur on the other engine due to bad maintenance for example. That,s why you see on twin engine jet's One or more back-up system's installed like on the B767, there is a Ram Air Tubine installed for Hydraulics and Hyd Motor Generator for electrical power if both engine's should fail. On MD11 or B747 there is no back-up system installed like on the B767. I see allot of manuals from boeing every day but I never seen a ETOPS manual for B747 or MD11. And the airline I work for has both aircrafts. I did not forget the ETOPS 207 because it is a extension of the ETOPS 180 and it's only applicable for FAA registrated B777 on pacific route's and not for European aircrafts.MarkAircraft Ground engineer B737 and B767.

Hi (?!!)EROPS rules are superseded by ETOPS rules as far as I known, I life in Europe and I work under EASA regulations, EROPS doesn't apply for European registrated aircraft's, ETOPS rules does not apply for aircraft's that have three or more Engine's. ETOPS will be replaced by LROPS in the near futher and will apply for all aircrafts. ETOPS rules is to make sure that if there is a Engine system failure it doesn't also occur on the other engine due to bad maintenance for example. That,s why you see on twin engine jet's One or more back-up system's installed like on the B767, there is a Ram Air Tubine installed for Hydraulics and Hyd Motor Generator for electrical power if both engine's should fail. On MD11 or B747 there is no back-up system installed like on the B767. I see allot of manuals from boeing every day but I never seen a ETOPS manual for B747 or MD11. And the airline I work for has both aircrafts. I did not forget the ETOPS 207 because it is a extension of the ETOPS 180 and it's only applicable for FAA registrated B777 on pacific route's and not for European aircrafts.MarkAircraft Ground engineer B737 and B767.

Mark,as i stated i depends on which state or country you re ...Air Canada (AC) and Canadian (CP) were due to operate a system like etops for 180' for 744 ops ... im not at home but will give you boco references on ETOPS and EROPS but not for 744 but for Tri-jet including MD11 ...this is not because your country or Europe is doing a way that others are doing the same ...!!!Phil

Hi (?!!)EROPS rules are superseded by ETOPS rules as far as I known, I life in Europe and I work under EASA regulations, EROPS doesn't apply for European registrated aircraft's, ETOPS rules does not apply for aircraft's that have three or more Engine's. ETOPS will be replaced by LROPS in the near futher and will apply for all aircrafts. ETOPS rules is to make sure that if there is a Engine system failure it doesn't also occur on the other engine due to bad maintenance for example. That,s why you see on twin engine jet's One or more back-up system's installed like on the B767, there is a Ram Air Tubine installed for Hydraulics and Hyd Motor Generator for electrical power if both engine's should fail. On MD11 or B747 there is no back-up system installed like on the B767. I see allot of manuals from boeing every day but I never seen a ETOPS manual for B747 or MD11. And the airline I work for has both aircrafts. I did not forget the ETOPS 207 because it is a extension of the ETOPS 180 and it's only applicable for FAA registrated B777 on pacific route's and not for European aircrafts.MarkAircraft Ground engineer B737 and B767.

Mark,Please read FAA 121.646.ETOPS - Engines Turn Or Pilots Swim.I'm old now (CML-1968) and only fly airplanes with four engines now; it was better when I was doing eight engines. :)Thanks,Bill Bridges