Capt.Sim 767...This was unexpected.

[Tim_Capps 474]

I'm sure one of the reasons companies make these advance announcements is to generate some buzz, and Captain Sim must be chuckling to see AVSIM forum denizens reacting as predictably as Pavlov's dogs. As far as frame rates go, I wonder if Captain Sim hasn't reached the point where frame rates are as good as they are going to get with a screen-licking good vc like theirs. When you look at products with good FPS, e.g. Coolsky's MD 80 Pro, and Level D's 767, you find vcs that show a lot of compromises, such as (at least partly) 2D overheads, and a lack of gratuitious animations. I don't consider that a fault, by the way; I assume that is what is contributing to high frame rates. It in no way gets in between me and enjoyment of the airplane. PMDG has probably come the closest, with a fully 3D overhead and decent frame rates in their MD-11. But even they don't have knurled and worn knobs without a detectable polygonal shape. I don't know if that is a technical limitation or a reflection of the emphasis Captain Sim puts on their visuals and the talent of their artisists.Perhaps that eye-candy has a little more sophisticated optimization behind it than we imagine.I hope you're right, Al, and people wind up with a pair each of the 7(5/6)7 sisters.

[Paperino60 0]

What is exasperating with Captain Sim is that even though their planes are stunning visually they always hide some weird nonconformities. The 757's auto throttle switch for example does not respond to the Shift-R keyboard command. Z does not disengage the auto pilot. Maybe they will come out with a "Extra-Pro" package later that will give hardware-using simmers the ability to assign keyboard strokes to discreet functions. How hard would it be to make every function keyboard assignable?Gianluca

[JC75 22]

Its quite simple to see why people favour LevelD over CS....The SDK. Quite simply the fact that LevelD Choose to release an SDK with there product blew ALL the competition way.As great as the CS VC may look, and even how great some of the systems are in the PMDG a/c they both lose on their support for hardware interfaces. Which is why that even PMDG have now stated they will release an SDK for their upcoming NG737.We have far less new a/c coming out for FS nowadays, due to to development times, and fewer developers in the market. With the price of hardware, falling, and more and more of it appearing, people are looking to enhance their hobby by not more and more aircraft as they arent available but making what they have got a more realsitic experience. VC are becoming more popular, but having to click and use your mouse isnt very realsitic(or easy when you are hand flying) So being able to intergrate a hardware MCP, FMC, various other swithces from home built kits, or even simply being able to map a joystick button or control to a command is what people want. LevelD is old, yes the graphics of the cockpit are no way as uptodate as being seen in the newer products, but it does still look good, and quite simply it flys perfectly, using a combination of Track IR, with the VC spread across 3 22inch monitors using TH2GO, my opencockpits, MCP, FMC, my SAITEK yoke and 2 sets of throttle quadrants some other home built swithces, i touch the mouse....er never. Online ATC dont get miffed because Im still trying to click the new heading, or speed etc. I can manually had fly my approaches far easier. Hardware is the way this community needs to go to keep the appeal and interest, as we not getting a new sim in the near future(depending on what Aerosoft are doing) and we wait years for new aircraft to be released.I praise CS for raising the Bar on the visuals, but with Leveld's SDK, which will be in their 757 also, and PMDG now also supporting this area of development, CS are going to just end up with nice looking "SIMTOYS" When I saw the release of their 757 patch, I was really interested, as Im so keen to get a 757 and something else to fly other than my levelD 767, but was sadly dissapointed when I saw no hardware support, they dont even very easily support keymapping!RegardsJames

[Guest Astradan]

I totally agree James.I would LOVE to fly CS aircraft - the VC and modelling visuals are stunning - but alas, every CS add-ons I've bought has been removed from my systems because after 1 flight I get so bored and frustrated trying to turn the heading knob with mouse clicks.I (and 100s if not 1000s of others) have been asking CS to make KEY ASSIGNMENTS for their products for years, and they constantly ignore these requests from customers.As has been said, the LDS 767 is the best of the bunch because EVERY command (including all the custom advanced systems) can be assigned to a key command (and therefore hardware).I'm not asking for that level of support from CS - even if just the Heading knob, Alt knob (on the MCP), Speed Knob (on the MCP) and the main AP modes (HDG, LNAV, VNAV, etc) could be assigned to keys, their aircraft would be amazing and I suspect I'd be flying little else!But, perhaps culturally, Captain Sim are stuck in a time where flight sim is enjoyed only by clicking the mouse on every fiddly little button and knob - I fear we will never get the assignable key commands we've been asking for for so long. :( I see these lovely looking add-ons like their new 727 for FSX and think, "that would be lovely, I'd buy that in a heartbeat, IF they had some assignable key commands".David Rogers

[Tim_Capps 474]

CS doesn't seem keen on providing the kind of support that people with fancy hardware setups want. I don't know how much extra work goes into that, but evidently they have made a business choice that sales lost to people who will not buy unless it supports their hardware are not significant enough to warrant it. I would be surprised if thousands of people were not buying on account of this reason. Sometimes they do seem to be insular, though.As for the difficulty of turning things in the cockpit, let's not overstate them. There are two things I find annoying. The course knob on the glareshield will take one click. Then click again. And again. Keep clicking until you're where you want. Now I can click pretty fast, and somewhere between one and 180 clicks doesn't take long, but still. The landing field altitude knob on the overhead does repeat, but does not accelerate. So if you're dialing in Mexico City's 8000 feet, bring a book along, because it is going to take awhile. Usually it's not that bad.As for the heading, you don't use the knob at all. Left click on the right side or the left side of the window to move it one way or the other. It repeats. Same with speed. This isn't hard and doesn't bother me. It would be nice if they accelerated, but they don't. I don't know how long it takes to dial in 10,000 feet on a real 757. Anyway, although I don't use that kind of hardware, I wish it was supported for those who do.

[Tim_Capps 474]

You don't have a clue at all and I have :( Cheers,

I have installed your replacement textures for the 767 vc. Much better! If they get some 3D knobs and switches underneath them in their 757, they could give Captain Sim a run for their money in the graphics department, which would be a very interesting development. Anyway, you've done a lot of good work for the 767, and thanks. By the way, I have found something Level D does better on their vc than Captain Sim: the lights pushbuttons on the overhead visibly depress.Captain Sim has someone who has fixed the night lighting, but as yet they do not seem open to him sharing the fruits of his labor with the masses. Maybe we'll see "Improved Night Lighting" as a feature in their 767 lolI don't want anyone to have the impression I am in any way knocking the LDS 767. I think it is a great bird, and something special in flight simulation.McPhat is coming out with Ultra High Def paints for both the Captain Sim 757 and LDS 767, the former as payware. I am looking forward to those. (Although I confess to being confused by McPhat's website, what with all the "coming soons" and various payware and non-payware and WIPs. I know those guys are busy; just look how many Ejet liveries they made!)

[Guest Mower]

To remain competitive and on good terms with present and prospective customers, a company MUST be responsive to their feedback.

[Guest Astradan]

CS doesn't seem keen on providing the kind of support that people with fancy hardware setups want. I don't know how much extra work goes into that, but evidently they have made a business choice that sales lost to people who will not buy unless it supports their hardware are not significant enough to warrant it. I would be surprised if thousands of people were not buying on account of this reason. Sometimes they do seem to be insular, though.As for the difficulty of turning things in the cockpit, let's not overstate them. There are two things I find annoying. The course knob on the glareshield will take one click. Then click again. And again. Keep clicking until you're where you want. Now I can click pretty fast, and somewhere between one and 180 clicks doesn't take long, but still. The landing field altitude knob on the overhead does repeat, but does not accelerate. So if you're dialing in Mexico City's 8000 feet, bring a book along, because it is going to take awhile. Usually it's not that bad.As for the heading, you don't use the knob at all. Left click on the right side or the left side of the window to move it one way or the other. It repeats. Same with speed. This isn't hard and doesn't bother me. It would be nice if they accelerated, but they don't. I don't know how long it takes to dial in 10,000 feet on a real 757. Anyway, although I don't use that kind of hardware, I wish it was supported for those who do.

Ok, Tim, clearly your a fan and that's fine but you've really missed the point here ................It ain't about "fancy hardware" - before I had any hardware at all, I would use the '[' and the ']' keys on my PC keyboard to change the heading in the LDS767........... it's far more intuitive and faster (especially when flying realistically and with high pressure, on-line) as compared to fiddling with the mouse on the screen (which is moving because of the TrackIR and VC that us 'fancy' simmers use these days.As for this:-

As for the heading, you don't use the knob at all. Left click on the right side or the left side of the window to move it one way or the other. It repeats. Same with speed. This isn't hard and doesn't bother me.

mmmmmm, you really have missed the point - I'll leave it there. As long as it doesn't bother you, then that's clearly all there is to it. :( D.

[Tim_Capps 474]

I like the product, but I am agreeing with you, so I don't see what point I'm missing. People who want functions mapped to the keystrokes don't get that in Captain Sim's 757, and they show no signs of providing it. This is unfortunate. I thought the further point was being made that changing heading or speed was unusually difficult because it involved interfacing with a fiddly knob with a mouse. I offered an alternative view that using the mouse on the windows was not a difficult proposition. I pointed out a couple of places where I did find it annoying.So I don't know how I can more agree with you, Dave. Captain Sim doesn't provide key mapping. It should. It is not interested in doing so. That's unfortunate. I suspect they do not believe it results in the loss of thousands of sales or they would do so.Surely mouse-in-the-vc vs. keyboard or other hardware is about the most subjective issue there is, wouldn't you agree? So on this issue, yeah, it doesn't bother me and that does end it for me. If it keeps other people from enjoying the airplane, then, I genuninely regret that keymapping isn't an option for them. My "g" key works, and so does my f2, a, and whatever I use for Radar Contact :-) I have other stuff programmed to my joystick buttons. I guess it just never occurred to me to want to use my MCP controls with a keyboard. I better appreciate the advantage for some now that you explained it.And being a fan does not mean being blind to faults. It is the fan who is most keenly aware of a questionable bullpen or lack of depth on the bench. If fan = uncritical, then I'm not a fan. If it means enjoying something and talking about it, then yeah, I am a fan. Seeing others enjoy it is part of it, too, which is why I think it would be nice if they had keystroke mapping for folks like you.Don't be fooled by the banner. A while ago it was Ejets. In another couple of months it will be whatever I'm flying most at the time. It is sort of a counter-balance to the anti-fans, I guess, too, one of whom I have no reason to believe you are.

[Guest PPSFA]

Tks tim, you sure do save me a lot of typing !

[Guest PPSFA]

Just fyi, CS is now asking for input on their forum as to what is needed for an SDK for the 757, seems their support is improving daily :-)those of you with addon hardware and issues with the 757, heres your chance.

[David Roch 1,982]

To remain competitive and on good terms with present and prospective customers, a company MUST be responsive to their feedback.

And to remain a member of this forum you have to comply with its rules Chris.I thought I was clear in my last PM.So please read it again.

[tfm 169]

The LDS 767 opened my eyes to what a PC-based flight simulator could do. I agree with everyone who admires it, despite the fact that the graphics now look slightly elderly.But I also own the CS 757 Pro and C130. I agree with everyone who admires the graphics in these products and although they have quirks, given time I am sure that they will be ironed out. I have to admit that the missing sub-systems don't really affect my use of the sim.So - and without any ill-will towards CS - I do hope that LDS isn't missing a trick here. Even by the most generous possible standards, they have been extremely dilatory in the release of their eagerly-awaited 757. A little delay is nothing among friends: but to competitors, it is an absolute god-send. Not everyone lasts in this tiny over-crowded niche market: witness the committed team of individuals which made FEX but found that the economics just didn't add up - a realisation hastened, I think, by the release of REX. I hope LDS won't go the same way, because their 767 really does have something a bit special about it and I would hope to see the same magic touch brought to future products.Tim

[ahinterl 1]

Having both the LDS 767 and the CS 757, my opinion, as unbiased as possible, that given the quality of CS's product (even with the latest 4.3 patch), no one should expect a plane even near to the LDS masterpiece in terms of systems simulation, accuracy, completeness and bug-freeness. "Eye candy" is a different thing and an area where CS might reign.I can only emphasize that after years of experience and the purchase of uncounted add-on planes, I don't expect developers like CaptainSim and FeelThere to ever reach the closer vicinity of the quality levels of a company like LDS or PMDG - at least systems- and bug-freeness wise.The majority of developers makes great efforts producing great planes, but they constantly fail getting rid of annoying bugs. So, when they stop developing for a product because they consider it to be "mature", you can still expect a bunch of "surprises" which can easily ruin the sim experience (e.g. the catastrophic autopilot of the CS 757 which is unable to fly an approach correctly and almost always overshoots laterally (e.g. heading select) and vertically (e.g. FLCH)). And it's mostly "small" bugs which cause this, and they never get eliminated.All in all, even not having seen the CS 767, I bet the difference to the LDS 767 is more than obviously detectable. Two products for a different audience.Andreas

[Guest 413X3]

as a cs 757 owner I am sort of ###### that they are touting this "new" feature of updatable navdata for the 767. what about us? i paid over $60usd for the 757 and do not fly it because the fmc is useless