FSAddon Publishing link Shock

[Guest Thaellar]

The problem is that with torrents, piracy suddenly becomes "easy". That's why the rampant increase. Piracy is now mainstream instead of underground.If Pirate Bay were filled with terrorism-related instructions or child pornography, the Swiss govt would have smashed the door down, confiscated all the servers and put the owners in prison. Piracy needs to be put in the same queasy company. Only then will it leave the mainstream and move back underground.It will take a global effort to do anything about it. The software industry must organize and put pressure on their governments and demand action. New laws have to be written. If the software and entertainment industries would organize, they could wield enough clout to lobby for new laws that would allow for more immediate and lasting effects.Please don't flame me with "you think piracy is as bad as exploiting children!?!" Of course it isn't, but it needs to produce a similar feeling of "wrongness" before it will ever diminish. Until then, parents won't even bother to police their child's torrent downloading habits because they are busy watching a pirated movie in the other room. Thaellar

[Guest Mesa]

If Pirate Bay were filled with terrorism-related instructions or child pornography, the Swiss govt would have smashed the door down, confiscated all the servers and put the owners in prison. Piracy needs to be put in the same queasy company. Only then will it leave the mainstream and move back underground.Thaellar

If it was a Swiss based operation the Swiss government wouldn't lift a finger believe me - no matter what their trade was. While the Swiss don't get involved in anyones business however, the Swedes are too laid back to care :( As a matter of interest I have just searched the site in question and by the looks of it the Tongass torrent doesn't work anyway! Whatever you did to make it untenable Francois et al - hats off to you! I'm sure the other developers could learn from that.

[Guest Thaellar]

Oops...yes. I should have said Swedish, not Swiss.Of course governments don't do anything. There isn't any incentive for them to pursue it. They need either a carrot in front of them or a stick put to them before that will happen. In the US, if you want action, you organize such that you have deep pockets and can entice the proper congressional committee leader. Checks get written and bills get passed. The stick way is to either shame them into action or have been successful at the first approach and threaten to cage the golden goose.Thaellar

[Guest FxF3]

'Interesting' thread this is ;-)Just to clear one or two things - not having any illusion whatsoever that it will do any good about 'lines in the sand' mind you - let me simply say this :a) I wrote that message because our company website is sort of a 'blog' with the latest message always on top, and at the time I was EXTREMELY frustrated seeing the traffic to our site quadrupled... and 80% of the new traffic was coming from the Pirate Bay suddenly. I left on holiday shortly after and have not had time to put up a new message.:( I surely had not anticipated this knee jerk reaction to it that some posters here display. Not that it would have deterred me, mind you, because it is MY message out of MY heart and aimed at ' you know who' , exactly as I stated. I simply cannot fathom why any straight thinking person would get offended. c) At the time when putting up the ad at Avsim there was another message there.... so yes, I can see that clicking on the Tongass ad may raise different expectations and I will have them change it. Thank you. d) No, I am not making 'publicity' this way.... or at least not more than any of you in this thread are. About all the rest of stealing versus 'rights' regarding software I am not going to comment. Enough has been written in that 'other thread', a lot of sensible things, and a few idiotic things as well. I'll just go back to tending to my vacation now, knowing that fortunately we do not depend on the exceptions, and thankful for some of the much appreciated support I found also in this thread. :( Francois

This is all I wanted to know Thank you Mr. Dumas. I'm glad you explained it I just felt as a FSX addon customer I was being dragged into something I could do nothing about. You can see by some of the post even me asking the ? about it has made me a bad guy and to some even a software thief myself. One poster did put into words better then me its like the buyers of flight sim addons are put in the middle and some of us almost feel like its being taken out on us because there is theft. The way you have put it in this post must be far worse then we know. "80% of the new traffic coming from the Pirate Bay" I think that says it all. Mr. Dumas better then anything else I have ever seen. Thanks for taking the time off you vacation to post some feedback on this.

[Guest Aviator4life]

"I surely had not anticipated this knee jerk reaction to it that some posters here display. Not that it would have deterred me, mind you, because it is MY message out of MY heart and aimed at ' you know who' , exactly as I stated. I simply cannot fathom why any straight thinking person would get offended. "Why is there such a need to identify those with a differing point of view as making a "knee jerk reaction"? The fact that you indicate you cannot fathom why any straight thinking person would get offended is simply an insult to the intelligence of all those who after much thought and deliberation have decided that they will not support companies who decide to do the sort of things that you, neoqb, and OrbX all think is perfectly ok.There is no need to misrepresent people such as myself as unreasonable or not "straight thinking".Again, how does offending legitimate customers or would-be legitimate customers create more business for you? Still that question remains to be answered in a meaningful way.Why do so many (including the publishers/devolopers in question) insist on creating such a negative image of those that disagree with them?I want to buy your product, why do you insist on deliberately insulting me and others who share this opinion? Incredible.

[Francois_Dumas 10]

"I surely had not anticipated this knee jerk reaction to it that some posters here display. Not that it would have deterred me, mind you, because it is MY message out of MY heart and aimed at ' you know who' , exactly as I stated. I simply cannot fathom why any straight thinking person would get offended. "Why is there such a need to identify those with a differing point of view as making a "knee jerk reaction"? The fact that you indicate you cannot fathom why any straight thinking person would get offended is simply an insult to the intelligence of all those who after much thought and deliberation have decided that they will not support companies who decide to do the sort of things that you, neoqb, and OrbX all think is perfectly ok.There is no need to misrepresent people such as myself as unreasonable or not "straight thinking".Again, how does offending legitimate customers or would-be legitimate customers create more business for you? Still that question remains to be answered in a meaningful way.Why do so many (including the publishers/devolopers in question) insist on creating such a negative image of those that disagree with them?I want to buy your product, why do you insist on deliberately insulting me and others who share this opinion? Incredible.

I reacted to similar words and an equally 'offending' tenure in some of the words written in some posts above.Having been a flightsimmer for more than 30 years now, being VERY close to the community - and not only in a commercial way - and having stellar customer support as our #1 target, next to great products, maybe makes me more sensitive to such nonsense.And yes, maybe, just maybe, at 57 I should be old and wise enough by now to just ignore threads like these...... well, alright, so call me passionate.I don't represent anybody but myself, and I sure as heck do not MISrepresent anybody..... I am just stating things as I see them, challenged by others, much like you do yourself ;-)And I STILL do not see why buying our product would be an issue for decent people, just because we for once didn't hold our tongue as far as criminal attacks to our livelihood are concerned. All developers and others involved worked for more than TWO years on this particular product.With that said, and glad most people DO agree with me, I'll go back to our little mountain retreat and try and enjoy a few more days of much needed vacation. :( Best rgds,Francois

[Guest Longyear]

You see that's a piece of that arrogance I referred to in my post ........ "nah nah nah, I'm not listening!".Tongass Fjords looks beautiful and respect to Holger, Bill and all those who developed it. But YOUR approach on this Francois, IS offending to some and I for one, had this product on my list but will not be purchasing it, until that inappropriate barrage is taken away from my face, on your website.So, your 'approach' is losing you genuine sales. Fact. Is it deterring pirates?I write as someone willing to swear on my life that I have never used a pirated add-ons or product in my life.

Spoken like a true consumer who could care less about anything other than what he wants. Try wearing someone else's shoes for a minute, maybe a developers.It truly amazes me that people still get upset with the person trying to protect their work instead of the scum sucking theif, usually because it inconveniences them.Sad thing is, the person or persons that upload the seed files to the torrent sites are more than likely interacting with you on the various FS forums, so the message is on the correct page at FSAddon.I vote for a NATO special forces unit with jurisdiction in every country and extreme prosecution for users that use these torrent sites to stop it. Maybe a bit extreme, BUT you are dealing with scum of the earth with no morals and countries that could care less that give them safe harbor.

Having seen your contributions on this forum, "1mikel151", I'll not take your insults with too much weight. Am I speaking for consumers, who aften get a poor deal in the FS hobby? You bet.... Am I ashamed of that? Not one bit. Everyone has a right to have their view represented, contrary to what you seem to think ............ Oh and on your nice nibblet of 'fascist policy' there, there are more piraters in the US than anywhere in the world. Maybe look closer to home before casting your prejudice to people of other nations ?Regards,David.

[N400QW 205]

So you really think this has the pirates running to shut down the torrent sites and remove said pirated material ? Perhaps you should read up on Spore, just google "Spore, most pirated game due to DRM"Why is the loss of income due to theft a concern of the paying customer ? I've seen more loss in my 21 years in the vending industry than the real loss of income of all the flight sim devs put together, so spare me the "if you were in thier shoes" speach.It's more a "please feel sorry for us and buy our product" than anything else.

Nope.Not interested in SporeIt should not be the concern of legitimate customers with one exception. Their costs increase due to theft...Probably so...Not from us...

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Hey! :( Is it something in the water, or is it the phase of the moon? Sheech! I sure wouldn't want to hang out with some of you right now for fear of having my head snapped off and limbs detached....to paraphrase what some one said: "too much talk, not enough flying."Stephen

[N400QW 205]

What ALL commercial vendors should do is stop whingeing about it to their customers and potential customers, and concentrate on DOING something about it. Protecting their intellectual rights is their business not ours..... Do your business BETTER, and you get more customers. Do your protection BETTER and you get fewer pirates. And possibly more customers...

Couldn't agree more Snave...At Eaglesoft we've endevoured to participate in Piracy/Antipiracy threads in order to provide a developers perspective to the community without drama. Be assured that we and others are indeed looking at some very stringent methods to protect our intellectual rights while maintaining user friendly purchase front ends.No cause for alarm since the methods mentioned do not touch hardware or legitimate users in any manner. :(

[N400QW 205]

Hey! :( Is it something in the water, or is it the phase of the moon? Sheech! I sure wouldn't want to hang out with some of you right now for fear of having my head snapped off and limbs detached....to paraphrase what some one said: "too much talk, not enough flying."Stephen

Ha ha, (Disclaimer) this is in jest lest someone be offended. One wags opinion is that it must be the "wrong time of the month" for those who are deeply offended over a a few remarks on an FS Site or in FS Forums. :( It's a joke folks so I've now put on my flame retardent suit. :(

[Guest TiggerToo]

It should not be the concern of legitimate customers with one exception. Their costs increase due to theft...

Ohhhh no they don't. Whatever you may think of Pirate Bay or any other torrent site they are not costing any developer anything. The data is duplicated, not transferred from a devs webserver. It's already been said that most folks on the Pirate Bay would not be customers in any case. Most torrent users are like collectors. They collect software just to have it. How do I know? Just read through the comment threads, follow the community, listen to the rhetoric. You really think there are thousands/millions of teenagers out there making money from a cracked version of Photoshop?Apple and Microsoft have more reasons than many to complain about software being copied (please stop calling it piracy) but their communications teams would hit someone on the head with a shovel if they thought for a second the CEO was going to publish a front page rant about torrent sites on Apple.com or Microsoft.com. Show your customers your wares, show them your prices. Ignore the rest of it.

[N400QW 205]

....With that said, and glad most people DO agree with me, I'll go back to our little mountain retreat and try and enjoy a few more days of much needed vacation. :( Best rgds,Francois

Enjoy your vacation Francois. :(

[Guest Mesa]

Ohhhh no they don't. Whatever you may think of Pirate Bay or any other torrent site they are not costing any developer anything. The data is duplicated, not transferred from a devs webserver. It's already been said that most folks on the Pirate Bay would not be customers in any case. Most torrent users are like collectors. They collect software just to have it. How do I know? Just read through the comment threads, follow the community, listen to the rhetoric. You really think there are thousands/millions of teenagers out there making money from a cracked version of Photoshop?Apple and Microsoft have more reasons than many to complain about software being copied (please stop calling it piracy) but their communications teams would hit someone on the head with a shovel if they thought for a second the CEO was going to publish a front page rant about torrent sites on Apple.com or Microsoft.com. Show your customers your wares, show them your prices. Ignore the rest of it.

Seconded, and applauded :(

[N400QW 205]

Ohhhh no they don't. Whatever you may think of Pirate Bay or any other torrent site they are not costing any developer anything. The data is duplicated, not transferred from a devs webserver. It's already been said that most folks on the Pirate Bay would not be customers in any case. Most torrent users are like collectors. They collect software just to have it. How do I know? Just read through the comment threads, follow the community, listen to the rhetoric. You really think there are thousands/millions of teenagers out there making money from a cracked version of Photoshop?Apple and Microsoft have more reasons than many to complain about software being copied (please stop calling it piracy) but their communications teams would hit someone on the head with a shovel if they thought for a second the CEO was going to publish a front page rant about torrent sites on Apple.com or Microsoft.com. Show your customers your wares, show them your prices. Ignore the rest of it.

Oh yes they do. Are you unaware that retail business passes price increases to consumers to cover loss due to theft?Simple concept. It matters not whether thieves "collect" or use items the've stolen, legitimate customers price increases are directly tied to loss due to theft. :(

Seconded, and applauded :(

Mesa, your remarks show a distinct ingnorance of how the "system" works.Your attitude is "legitimate users costs be damned". Sorry, but as we say in the midwest.."That dog won't hunt". :(