I've checked my post and I can't seem to find anywhere in it where I indicated that pirates would be running to shut down torrent sites and remove pirated material. Feel free to re-read my post and show me where I even hinted at such a suggestion. Instead what I was saying is that I don't see how a simple message on there home page could cause such frustration.

I don't get it either. I would think the fs users we have here on avsim would be glad to give their support to such a message. Am I missing something? The product as I understand it is just one more click away?I realize the message may not be directed at me-but I don't mind thinking that perhaps those who the message is directed at might have a change of conscience, or at least feel guilty for 20-30 seconds.

More airplanes. Less drama.

Regardless of whether Francois' rant was there or not, that link on the Avsim front page will not take you to any individual product page.By the way neither does BluePrints. Some of those banner adds take you to product pages some don't. So the fact that FSAddon's banner doesn't take you directly to a product page is not all that unusual.When you get to FSAddon's page it says

Dear Torrent and Pirate Bay visitors, You know who you are

Regardless of whether Francois' rant was there or not, that link on the Avsim front page will not take you to any individual product page.By the way neither does BluePrints. Some of those banner adds take you to product pages some don't. So the fact that FSAddon's banner doesn't take you directly to a product page is not all that unusual.When you get to FSAddon's page it says What I meant by my first post was that since I am not a "Torrent and Pirate Bay visitor" I was not bothered by what I saw and read. It is my opinion that if you (anyone, not just the OP) are offended by it , then maybe you are a "Torrent and Pirate Bay visitor". Otherwise I can't personally understand why Francois' letter would bother you. If your intent was to go to this site to purchase/learn about one of their products, then the letter is not intended for you.EXACTLY, I agree 100%!!!Do I think Francois' decision was the best for his company? probably not.Do I think he has the right to do it? you bet.Do I think it will change much about the piracy situation? Big change, no. But if one person reads that and decides to purchase the product as opposed to steal it, it was worth doing it 100%!Orbyx's decision to shut down for a day has been blackballed as hurting their paying customers. Give me a break. They symbolically shut down for 24 hours and then resumed business as usual. Their products and support are top notch as far as I can tell and anyone who couldn't wait the 24 hours needs to shut the computer off and go for a walk. The fresh air will do you some good.Bottom line , these developers need all the support we can give them, financial and verbal. Without it they go away, that simple. And who does that hurt, not them. They will go do something else where their hard work doesn't get ripped off and posted all over the internet 24 hours after they release it. No, the ones who get hurt are us, because we lose the opportunity to customize our little "worlds" with what they have to offer us.There is a discussion about piracy going on in the Hangar Chat forum about piracy. I would like to quote from that, Bill Leaming who had this to say about piracy..I would like all of us to think about this the next time we decide to slam a developer in a post on these forums. These guys are people too, and the last thing we need is for any of them to come here and read something that makes them say "that's it, I've had enough, I give up".best regards,Joe

Bravo Joe-well said!

I don't understand what the big deal is either your not being forced to read it, just click past it. I do wonder how many people who are stealing via torrents would even buy the add on anyways? I've seen some developers claim that each DL'ed torrent was a lost customer, I just can't believe this. I would like to see just how much higher sales would be if this kind of piracy stopped completely?

I don't understand what the big deal is either your not being forced to read it, just click past it. I do wonder how many people who are stealing via torrents would even buy the add on anyways? I've seen some developers claim that each DL'ed torrent was a lost customer, I just can't believe this. I would like to see just how much higher sales would be if this kind of piracy stopped completely?

Seems to me the argument always turns from what is morally right to what is practical. Probably true that every pirated copy is not a lost sale, after all could be that many of those who are stealing are snot nosed kids who would not be buying anyway regardless.On the other hand those snot nosed kids will be grown up in 10 years working in banks, government etc.Scares me greatly-it is bad enough now.....

The Flight Sim world is getting stranger and stranger.

That it most certainly is...I'll never understand why anyone would want to cut off their nose just to spite someone else.Tongass Fjords is one of the most outstanding pieces of scenery available. To deprive one's self of obtaining it because of something as trivial as this certainly doesn't appear to be a very mature reaction, IMHO.I believe Eric Flint has nailed it perfectly in the following quote:

People vary from one individual to another, that is a fact.People will draw their "line in the sand" in different places, that is a fact.To say or imply that those who don't agree with you are trite or making "much ado about nothing" based soley on their disagreement with your position, rather than the validity of the basis of their point of view is simply wrong and not going to get the job done.I will repeat myself from another thread. There are two sides to this coin. Perhaps one day enough flight-simmers will get frustrated with these sort of antics and decide to quit the hobby effectively removing their support for the companies that make flight-sim products altogether. I am not trying to "slam" anyone, I am trying to help them understand that subjecting legitimate customers to these sorts of things are counter-productive.There is no need to resort to personal insults implied or direct in an intelligent discussion of this issue. I have yet to have anyone, anywhere, at anytime explain to me how it is better to lose sales to both software piracy and alienated legitimate would-be customers as oppposed to losing sales to software piracy alone.Which scenario creates more positive cash flow? I don't think "turning off" would-be legitimate customers or proven legitimate customers is the answer. Explain the flaw in my logic to me, don't tell me that I'm being overly sensitive, need to go outside and get some air, or otherwise insult my intelligence. Make a good point, I promise that I'll give your ideas due consideration, maybe even change my mind. I assure you all that I would really like to be enjoying Tongass Fjords right now, but as of yet I still see no reason to move my "line in the sand". I can honestly say the same thing for "Rise of Flight", but why should my feelings towards flight-simming products override the common sense that is telling me this industry is heading down the wrong road?Right now my resting heart rate is 46 bpm. I assure you again that I am not overreacting or getting unduly upset about this issue.Best regards.

I didn't buy it because I didn't see a coverage map and wasn't sure if there would be any cool place to fly in 737s like Misty Fjords had.

Tim, this ain't high and fast territory, it's floatplane and low and slow. There is so much to see that unless you stay down and use the floatplane bases, you will miss a lot. The Goose is a perfect plane for Tongass as it's amphib.Landing next to a glacier and taxxing around icebergs is an FSX experiance not to be missed :( <<<< Glare from the ice requires sunglasses

Hmm interesting posts, but what can i say, FSADDON one of my fav publisher developer group, they are very good and friendly people. They did a lot for the bush pilot people.And like all the customers who bought from them Im very happy. And i think Thats the POINT.Misty, Tongass , FSCARGo great stuff thanks FSADDON

What FS Addon publishers should do is register on The Pirate Bay (and any other public torrent site which allows comments) and post a concise but hard hitting comment under their respective product page about the harm that piracy is causing. This will get the right message to the right people.Just post your message and do yourself a favour and NEVER go back to the page again. Life is too short to read the drivel replies you will inevitably get.-For the record, I do not agree that the kind of knee-jerk reactions to piracy which FSAddons and OrbX are using are constructive in the long term. For one, any legitimate customer who may not have known or used any type of filesharing before (yes, there are many still out there) may now actually go and have a look at what all the fuss is about.As evidenecd enough times by now others will be put off by companies who throw their toys (as nice as they may be) out their cots, irrespective of what anyone here has to say about it. That is their right.As the utterly insignificant consumers we all are just about the ONLY right we have left is the right not to buy something. FSAddons and OrbX and others would do well to keep this in mind.

What ALL commercial vendors should do is stop whingeing about it to their customers and potential customers, and concentrate on DOING something about it. Protecting their intellectual rights is their business not ours. The FSAddon link is just another poor example of Best Practice - proved by the OP who isn't buying, when he was in a buying frame of mind when he approached them - and the discussion here, little of which relates to the relative merits of the product! That's simply poor commerce, not customer or pirate interference. When will these `mom & pop` operations realise that it isn't a game from the moment they want to take money off us..? It doesn't matter whether you're working from an industrial estate or a garden shed, the business relationship with your paying customers and potential customers should be handled the exact-same way. No excuses. Do your business BETTER, and you get more customers. Do your protection BETTER and you get fewer pirates. And possibly more customers, although we've never seen any hard evidence to suggest that better-protected products sell better in the flight simulation market. Anyone able to prove that? Do Eaglesoft or Flight 1 have a smaller piracy problem because of the Key system? Do Ariane or FSD sell more because their Gestapo-like protectionism puts off pirates, but also genuine customers?

Well said Snave!I couldn't agree more.Thaellar

'Interesting' thread this is ;-)Just to clear one or two things - not having any illusion whatsoever that it will do any good about 'lines in the sand' mind you - let me simply say this :a) I wrote that message because our company website is sort of a 'blog' with the latest message always on top, and at the time I was EXTREMELY frustrated seeing the traffic to our site quadrupled... and 80% of the new traffic was coming from the Pirate Bay suddenly. I left on holiday shortly after and have not had time to put up a new message.:( I surely had not anticipated this knee jerk reaction to it that some posters here display. Not that it would have deterred me, mind you, because it is MY message out of MY heart and aimed at ' you know who' , exactly as I stated. I simply cannot fathom why any straight thinking person would get offended. c) At the time when putting up the ad at Avsim there was another message there.... so yes, I can see that clicking on the Tongass ad may raise different expectations and I will have them change it. Thank you. d) No, I am not making 'publicity' this way.... or at least not more than any of you in this thread are. About all the rest of stealing versus 'rights' regarding software I am not going to comment. Enough has been written in that 'other thread', a lot of sensible things, and a few idiotic things as well. I'll just go back to tending to my vacation now, knowing that fortunately we do not depend on the exceptions, and thankful for some of the much appreciated support I found also in this thread. :( Francois

Focusing away for a moment from those taking the software...Much of the problem is here:1) The PC is not a secure device2) Google returns 100x more links to torrent sites than vendor sites for a given title3) ISPs allow torrent traffic, when close to 100% of it is violating copyrightEvery option has been tried to make PC software secure and hackers beat it.Most efforts just end up annoying paying customers.If Google and ISPs dealt with the torrent issue much of the problem would be solved.Focus on paying customers on your website. Offer incentives like forum access, updates, repaints, add ons.If that can not turn a decent profit then its just not worth developing on the PC.