Tim_Capps

Without FS2Crew I can perform a full autoland with no problems. With FS2Crew I get to the point where I am almost touching down, and RETARD is showing on the PFD. I bring the throttles back and the engines paradoxically rev up and ARM appears on the PFD screen. The problem only and always happens with FS2Crew. It never happens without FS2Crew. My buttons are assigned per the manual and work fine. The only thing I'm operating when the problem occurs is the bringing the throttles down for touchdown.

This is the complaint I hear from my family: "Dad's so hard to buy for. I have no idea what to get him." I don't want Christmas to be a time of stress for people. So I bought four items averaging around $50 and sent out an email listing them to my wife and (grown) kids. Aerosoft's new F-14 iFly's 747 fs2crew for 767 & Aerosoft's Airbus FSDreamTeam's KIAH The rules are each picks one and pays whatever they feel like on it, up to $50. They're already downloaded and won't be installed until Christmas. Each one will be considered a bona fide gift (since I probably would think twice about buying them myself). If they cover the whole price, great; if not, I enjoy a discount. Oh, and nothing gets installed until Christmas to make it official. The only downside I can think to this scheme is I spend all day Christmas in front of my computer ignoring everybody! Well, that, and no one participating. But, then again, I still get the stuff

Not to beat a dead horse, but I want to sharpen my criticism of Captain Sim's CWS so people know exactly what I'm talking about. On initial climb, engage CWS. It works perfectly. You are engaging the AP when the yoke is already back, so there's no problem. Start to level out by pulling your joystick or yoke back. Maybe it will let go, maybe not. If you center your joystick that may help "break" it loose. It may even require a backward nudge. But not too much, or it will over do it and you'll find yourself in a dive. Let's assume you're in level flight and want to dive. You want to move the stick forward slowly enough not to overshoot your desired VS, but if you move it too slowly, the AP will set itself at someplace short of where you were aiming for. It is very tricky to find that exact touch on the stick to get it all the way to where you want to set your descent while not overshooting. But now is where things get really interesting. Easing back on the stick -- which is the instinctive approach -- will get you nowhere. You can pull it all the way back and it won't do any good. Centering might work, but probably not. Worse, in fighting your efforts to come out of the descent, it will reset at a higher rate of descent. Each time you try to get out of what is now a dive, your terrifying plunge becomes more terrifyingly plungey. With enough violent jerking around of the stick, you might get it to break, but now you're zooming up in a crazy climb. So, with extremely delicate and experimental movements of the stick, the pitch up works well enough under CWS. Getting into a descent works, so long as you get the right balance between avoiding getting stuck prematurely and overshooting into a plunge. Getting out of the descent back into level flight is a dice roll, and even then there is a good chance you'll zoom up. Chances are you will end up disengaging AP to rescue your airplane from the clutches of an murderous dive. Nothing works remotely like anything you'd find in a commercial airliner. (Except roll, which doesn't seem to suffer from the problems pitch presents. So, given all the above, I suppose you could say it "works," and I'll admit it isn't completely broke, unless you expect reliable responses from pitch inputs. With further practice I might be tempted to fly the Captain Sim 737, but I would not expect either realism or much fun out of the CWS. You still have heading select and altitude hold,, and if you have to, can fly without the autopilot for brief periods. CONTRAST THAT with the Milviz. You pitch down, you descend. You pull the stick back, you go back to level flight. Pull it back more, you climb. It is docile and as happy to give you back your airplane as a retriever with a partridge.

Looks like my wife will have an easy Christmas, then. Already downloaded and waiting for Santa to install it when he drops by.

Maybe that's just to suck the bees out of the pitot tube

Any reviewer, official or otherwise, can only report and form opinions on his experiences with the aircraft, after due diligence, of course. As you are familiar with the Captain Sim forums, you will no doubt be aware that I am not the only one having issues with their 737. So, yes, I am entirely comfortable reporting a wonky CWS because I gave it a fair chance, determined I was not the only one having problems, and found the competitor's CWS to work in a predictable and enjoyable fashion. Even Captain Sim concedes that their 737 is in need of a update, and has apologized for the delay. (They have not mentioned any specific issues, nor a target date.) I'm sure you would not say the PDCS works without crashing the sim, for example. There's an old saying, the cure for bad speech is more speech. It may be a stretch to call my little comparison "bad speech," even from your perspective. However, the point is that if you believe my reporting was unfair, you have provided a contrary opinion, and that's great. Now readers can say, "Well, perhaps it doesn't work right for some people, but this fellow seems to think it's just fine." Then they can pay their money and take their chance or not. I've never written a review that everybody agreed with, so I respect your opinion. What DOES seem to work well is Captain Sim's CWS in their L1011. So what's the difference? Who knows? I have to call 'em as I see 'em. But I'm sincerely happy for you that you are able to enjoy the CS 737 because it is in other regards a beautiful little airplane. I'm still laughing, though, because the last thing I ever thought I would be called on AVISM is "unfair" to Captain Sim I salute you, fellow Captain Sim Defender!

I'll try that, thanks. I'm not getting BSOD, but GSOD (Gray Screens of Death) where I can see the frozen sim as if looking through a grey haze.

I was thinking about the Aerosoft Airbus, too. The built-in flight crew, RAAS, etc. do kind of pull you in. "Immersive" is a tricky word.

According to Captain Sim, they still are planning an update. And it is not strictly true that they abandon all projects. The current 757 went through several updates and ultimately a rewrite of the code to eliminate reliance on FSUIPC that was at the root of some of the most intransigent problems. It's a very nice airplane now, I think their best. Their 727, on the other hand has clearly been abandoned with its too-fast trim, battery problem and other issues I don' t even remember at this date. Mind you, I still think it's worthwhile to own, at least for me, but has never been quite finished. Which route will the 737 take? By now only the truest of true believers think it will be fixed. As for my Milviz 737, I flipped and I flopped, and finally got my refund from Flight 1, and then immediately bought it again LOL. I haven't had a regret. I think if some of the folks satisfied with the CS CWS could get 30 minutes in the Milviz, they'd realize just how wrong CS got the pitch control. To CoolIP: I didn't yet. I ought to take the time and do up several reviews. I find being a reviewer too much like work :smile: . But still, I enjoy doing them on my terms. I thought the L1011 was fabulous. I liked the INS-lite feature where it just imported a flight plan. Yes, I know many will turn up their nose at that, but, frankly, working the CIVA INS was a lot like work, too. I'm just a survey simmer. I bounce around from airplane to airplane and unless you stay up on that stuff you end up starting from scratch (at least at my age). Half the time I just fly big circuits around Seattle to practice the airplane. When it came out there seemed to be, after the usual grousing, a grudging acknowledgement that they had a good airplane on their hands in the L1011. It's just beautiful, too.

Just a simple question for those who have the new 747. I already know how iFly does things like click spots and am fine with it, and don't want to wait for anything else.

Reminds me when my instructor had me suck on our Cessna's pitot tube to see if the stall horn would work. To this day I don't know if that is ever really done or if he was just laughing at me.

LOL -- we need more humor and less angst here.

Any Captain Sim VC -- that's what they do right. I'd say the 737-200, but while it is their very best looking, surely immersive must include an absence of frustrations. I've always liked the CS 757, so that would probably be first, although Coolsky's DC-9 is sooooo crisp looking at UHDT it would be hard to choose from between them. I remember the first time I used a VC on a big screen. I had always been a 2D panel guy. It was an Embraer, and I was shocked at how it pulled me into the sim in a way I had never experienced. I've never used a 2D panel since. (Not to start an argument about the respective merits of VC vs. 2D -- to each his own.)

Just to close out this comparison, I've finally decided that one is better than the other. What the Milviz may lack in visual glitz it makes up for in getting the basics right. No magic touch required with the CWS, for example. It just works nicely. After flying each for awhile, there is just no comparison there, and that tips the scales in favor of the Milviz. I am confident that if Captain Sim ever finishes their product, we'll finally have the 737-200 we've always wanted. One caution about the Milviz. I have run into OOM errors and crashes while using the FMS. The FMS itself is a surprisingly capable device that can even do SIDs and STARs. It does not have a big screen, of course; it's all text. If you don't trust your radio navigation skills, though, it gets the job done. I still prefer the old Sperry 77, though.

If it was not "broke" one would expect it to operate in pitch roll as it does in roll mode, correct? With roll mode there is no magic technique needed. You turn, wait, and it's set. (Well, it turns back to center, then returns, which isn't that big of a deal.) You turn out of it -- the wheel gives a slight "hitch" -- and turn into another input, which is held as before. Why can't pitch be as reliable? Anyway, I'm pleased some find it working to their satisfaction. At the end of the day, Milviz has the better 737 for now. If CS fixes their 737 it will be a thing of beauty. My solution to all these problems is to fly the Milviz instead. With their clean interior mod it's quite nice. Plenty of North American liveries, even if they're relatively few elsewhere.

I spent an hour just flying in a straight line, trying to climb to an altitude and then descend to another. Initially setting climb is easy. You just pull back and hold, and the climb needle will settle on a reading more or less what you intended. I say "more or less" because it will usually drop from where you set it by 500 feet or so, but you can fine-tune it the first time you use it to set climb. When I try to level off, though, that's when the problems begin. I was never once able to get within 400 feet of the intended level off altitude, and often it was more. Since I'm climbing, I push forward. The trim wheel spins.. it's actually fighting me. That's not going to work. I release, now I'm climbing at a higher rate. Worse, when I try pulling back to disengage, it may or may not let go of the climb. Most of the time, it settles on climbing at a great V/S. Great. If I continue to fiddle with it, it may eventually disengage, but will often suddenly "break loose" and plunge the aircraft into a dive. At best, there is no way to accomplish it smoothly. This was the story for all my experiments. I could never get it to level off. Much easier to just fly the thing with trim. performance of CWS grossly inconsistent CWS likely to initiate uncommanded dive that could endanger the aircraft by overspeed or impact with terrain CWS is broken. There are just too many broken things with this airplane to keep it in my hanger where I'll be tempted into another frustrating session. I've given it every chance.

Another circuit. No matter how I finesse it, sometimes it does not want to stop what it's doing and do something else. So I want to climb to 5000 feet. It's 7400 ft before I manage to get the CWS to "let go." (Usually by pulling the stick in the opposite direction, causing a precipitous dive when it decides to break loose.) On approach, I wanted to descend to 4000 ft. It kept on going no matter what I did with the column, right down to 3000 and headed for the ground until I turned the AP off entirely. I'll keep fooling with it for awhile, but it really burns me up. CS had made so much progress. They had their 757 all fixed, at least as far as I was concerned, they came out with a wonderful L1011. BUt they revert to form with a grossly broken 737 and the bubble of good will is burst. The Milviz was on SP5! The 737 is still on 1.0 while we're strung along with promises that they're releasing a fix for all this. I don't know of anyone who is really expecting it. At least the CS 737 has detailed lavatory valves.

CoolIP, yes, I tried the old electric_always_available=1 with no luck. Fr. Bill's suggestion to use FSUIPC's infinite battery seems to have helped. At least it gave me 20 minutes or so on ground power until I started the APU. So that may be one problem down. I think I have discovered something with the CWS. (Control Wheel Steering? I've also seen Control With Stick.) Anyway, when using it, it wants you to center the column in between inputs. I even pull my joystick back just a bit. Then it seems to accept a different command. That might be the trick. If that's what you guys are doing, then I bet it is. But it is still fairly unpredictable, or maybe I just don't have the "magic touch" yet. It doesn't do a perfect job holding altitude, so I would want to use the altitude hold knob for that. It also doesn't want to hold altitude when I try to combine an existing CWS pitch input with a roll input. It wants to lose altitude in a way similar to an ordinary hand-flown bank without some back pressure on the yoke. If I could solve just these two problems -- the dead battery and the CWS -- I would consider it good enough to enjoy, mainly because there's no other good two-man crew classic besides the DC-9. (As I mentioned, the Milviz just doesn't tick my graphics box.) (I'm sorry 737-200, you're just so cute, I can't stay mad at you, if you'll just throw me a bone here.) EDIT: I did a big circuit around KSEA, using only CWS, until turning the autopilot off on approach. I'll say that I think I'm onto something with returning the column to center before a new input. But even that is inconsistent. Sometimes it will decide to descend into terrain unless I intervene. On the long "downwind leg" (about 40 miles) CWS lost from 5000 t0 3900, and it took effort to simply get it to fly at 5000 feet. It went up to 6000, and wouldn't behave even when I centered the column. I guess I'm encouraged enough to keep working on it despite the flaws.

I haven't installed FSUIPC, although that's a good point. As to Paul's fix, which one are we talking about? There is a four-in-one that has a battery charger, the yaw damper light, and a couple of others. I backed out of installing it when the instructions differed slightly in the filename of one of the files. I am amazed that seem to be the only one having a CWS that "won't let go" and let me change pitch. That is the real deal breaker because sudden plunges just takes me right out of the realism, not to mention the danger of overstressing the aircraft. Who knows? It's no big deal to reinstall, and I kept my files with the liveries, aircraft config, and Bud's mods. I'll probably get into a forgiving mood and reinstall at least the -200.

Twice with different aircraft I have had the screen "gray out" and go into an unrecoverable (flight simulator not responding) freeze. There is no sound, although I can see through the gray film to the frozen sim. The last time I had right-clicked, and the menu was visible beneath the film and the "wait" circle was turning. Both times I was well into a flight. I had no weather at all (cleared) the second time. So it doesn't seem to be related to airplanes, or weather. Although it is not like the typical WIndows 7 blackout, I thought to try the uiautomationcore.dll fix. It didn't work. The only thing I'm doing is running Nvidia Inspector at the recommended settings.

I was not being spiteful toward anyone, and thanks for the advice and other opinions. But the power loss is hardly an isolated problem. If I'm not mistaken there is even a gauge a user made to fix it, but I have never had much luck with those kinds of mods. The dead battery issue is a long-time Captain Sim problem that they never seem to have fixed in their 727 and 737, at least. I've noticed that the primary experience with this hobby for me is frustration. Some of it I can lay at the feet of some devs. Some of it is no doubt my fault, although I keep my expectations modest and don't over-tweak. What brings me here today is frackin' "greyout," I can see everything frozen, but there is a grey film obscuring it, with only the mouse cursor wheel spinning, So instead of flying, I'm yet again here looking for the solution to some stupid problem. I'm going to go buy a model train set. The alt hold does disengage when you manual change pitch control, but, as I said, I have deflected the thing all the way forward and it WILL NOT let me control the a/c with CWS, until it breaks free and sends us all into a spectacular dive. Really, who needs that? Maybe an isolated problem; I dunno. I can only honestly report what I experience with a product. Well, back to spending the rest of my afternoon trying to fix yet another problem.

Well, it hardly matters, because even with the APU on, I lose power in the time it takes to complete catering with AES, and that's all she wrote for that flight. I'm about to conclude there are just too many things wrong with this airplane to tolerate. I've been a Captain Sim supporter for a long time, and have always found a way to (mostly) make things work. Now here comes an airplane that I really like, and want to work, and have spent considerable time and patience on. It still fails in the most basic ways (e.g. staying turned on once started). Not to mention careless errors like the fuel total in kilograms, etc.) I'm done with it. If Captain Sim at long last ever fixes the d+++ed thing, I'll be happy. Time to uninstall lest I once more be tempted into a frustrating waste of time. Milviz may be an eyesore and have a few issues of its own, but at least you can fly the thing.

Could it be I am using the CWS improperly with the CS bird? There's no doubt it is sweet to hold climb after takeoff. The trick is, now I want to get out of the climb. I push forward... forward... full forward... nothing happens. Maybe I jiggle it a bit and WHAM it plunges into a dive, scaring the passengers. Am I SUPPOSED TO use the trim button with the thing? As I understand the real one, it would stop in a detent, then you would take it out of the detent with some pressure. That's not the experience I am having at all. I have checked at Captain Sim's forum and I'm told by others that they're just not having the problem. I have no idea why my airplane would perform any differently. The duplicate review got posted because when I posted this one I got a 503 error, and after putting all that work into it, I just got disgusted and quit without checking to see whether it got posted. I just assumed it didn't so now I'm cheerfully looking stupid for posting the same legnthy review twice.

What You Get I am comparing the 737-200s with the Sperry 77 (old school) autopilot. The Milviz has the Sperry 177 and the "Universal" FMS, too. I don't use it (or haven't yet) so just be aware that the Milviz has options for retrofitting your 737 with more modern avionics, while the Captain Sim 737 is strictly old school. (I should mention that the Milviz FMS is not like ones you might be familiar with, e.g. there is no moving map display or the like.) Milviz provides a 737-200 (only) in different configurations, such as the straight-up passenger version, and versions that can be changed out for either passenger or cargo, or even both together. You can add a gravel kit, too, if you want. It's all managed through an interface that lets you set up your version, add payload and fuel (although you'll still be checking inside FSX), and select start-up state. There is a livery pack that is offered for free. (There are relatively few repaints, by the way.) You can choose between the old school Sperry 77 autopilot, or the "Universal" FMC with the 77 or 177. It's neither Boeing nor Airbus, so you're going to have to go to school on it. In summary, you get a lot for the price of admission, and can ferry passengers from Lisbon to Funchal or cargo in the wilds of western Canada. (There seems to be a Canadocentric vibe to the whole project.) Manuals include a lot of real-world material. The Universal FMC gets some detailed treatment (you'll need it). There is a nice, short, "let's get started" document. Captain sim sells the basic -200. The -100 (of which only a few were manufactured), the 200 Advanced, and cargo version are sold separately. No gravel kit or pax/cargo combos. You get the Sperry 77, with no retrofitted FMC. You do get smoking-light-is-on-stewardesses-in-miniskirts technology: the PDCS. (Not that you'll want to use it. More about that in a bit.) As is typical for Captain Sim, you get lots of luscious liveries and plenty available for download. There is the standard Captain Sim ACE utility that lets you load your airplane (for real) and manage your repaints (sometimes). That's all it does, but it works, as far as it goes. The forums for both are responsive and friendly. You'll likely get answers from devs on the Milviz forum, and, on the Captain Sim forum, from dedicated, knowledgable and semi-official "fans." I know Captain Sim support will always be a point of contention, but for the time being, at least, they have a good setup. Captain Sim's "official" support is a knowledge base and trouble ticket system. In summary, you get a lot of operational variety with Milviz' product, while Captain Sim offers basic variants for sale as separate add-ons, and many more high-quality, free liveries. The Beauty Contest As you might expect, Captain Sim is much better looking. Outside, there is simply no contest. Captain Sim makes the best looking airplanes around, in my opinion. Milviz's effort is... more basic. Where Captain Sim creates subtle little ripples and details in the metal, Milviz looks quite plain and smooth. You probably won't be lured outside the flightdeck to admire the cosmetics on the Milviz model. On the inside it is a bit closer. For once, the "distressed" flightdeck is not on the Captain Sim airplane. It is gorgeous, with suble trompe d'oei'l dull metallic shading. It is the best work on a flightdeck I've ever seen. It is not particularly distressed (nothing like their 727) but isn't brand new, either. Milviz does much better inside than it did outside. However, they made the choice to provide a flight deck that looks like it might have been submerged in seawater for a few months. (Perhaps a short landing at San Francisco's runway 28L?) Their -200 is a real beater. It is literally rusted, and -- I'm not kidding -- a green film of what appears to be algae is on the console and first officer's seat. And the captain has spilled his latte -- let's hope, anyway -- on the bottom of the panel. Personally, I liked it. It took guts to publish that, and maybe that's what their model looked like. To repeat: I'm not panning the flightdeck -- it's well done -- I'm just describing what it looks like. (That's the best latte spill I've ever seen.) The instruments look good, and the animations of switches and the like struck me as particularly nice, if on the slow side. The panel lighting is really nice. You can actually dial it from "off," through "dim," to "bright." I notice that some of the sounds seem to be a bit overdone. Changes the nav frequency are punctuated by loud thunks. If that's the way real 737s sound, then my apologies. Speaking of animations, I have to complain about Captain Sim's panel. Both products have a neat weight gauge that lets you set what flaps you're landing with, and the needle will show your vref speed. Cool, old school technology that works. On the Milviz 737, it works, anyway. On the Captain Sim 737, it is forever frozen at flaps 30, although you can still click it through your landing flaps settings and the needle will move. In other words, the knob's animation is broken in the Captain Sim 737 rendering the device unusable. And, after all this time, they haven't fixed it. It is little annoyances like that that bring the Captain Sim product down. No, you don't absolutely have to have it, but it is welcome on the Milviz 737. Captain Sim's flightdeck is easily better, but Milviz's isn't bad, and your reaction to it is probably going to depend on whether you like a nice, clean airplane, or one held together by chewing gum and rust flakes. Note: there is a "clean" version of the Milviz panel available as a free download. However, t is unsupported and we are warned that some things (particularly the very nice interior lighting) won't work right if you use it. In summary, Captain Sim outshines the Milviz 737, but if you want a beater of an airplane for cargo routes in the Northwest, you might like the latter. Let's Go Flying The Milviz 737 flies fine (for all I know) without any tweaking. I will say that it seems to slide through the air like a greased eel on teflon ball bearings. It is hard for me to believe that you can bring the throttles to idle and a 737-200 will glide merrily along in level flight. I enjoy flying big circuits at KSEA, and this is the only airplane I have noticed this with. So be prepared to make liberal use of your speed brake. Otherwise, I feel the Milviz fles better. The Captain Sim 737 gets modded before I'll fly it. On their forums you can easily find mods to bring performance down to more realistic levels, and another to fix the "explosive" start-up indications. These are not hard to apply, and, and they're great to use. You can easily calculate your EPR for a given cruise alititude, set your throttles, and forget about them. Now, there is nothing arduous or complicated about this, but it's just the way things are. You're either willing to do it, or would rather take a stand on principle. I should mention that the Captain Sim 737 is not unflyable without the mods; perhaps a bit too powerful, but okay. I just vastly prefer the modded version, Paul Tally (search in the library) has V1 gauges with lots of goodies for BOTH products you might want to take a look at. In summary, with the exception of the apparent lack of drag on the Milviz airplane, I think it flies a tad better. This is not to say the Captain Sim 737 is bad (when modded) but, after all, we are comparing the two, right? The Sperry 77 autopilot works fine in both products. You'll be introduced to the pleasures of Control Wheel Steering. You pull back the yoke to the desired pitch and it will stay! Mostly. Actually, perhaps becuase of a limitation in FSX, I wouldn't say either work perfectly. There seems to be some hitches and hiccups, but most of the time they're good enough. There is also altitude hold, and heading hold, but no autothrottle. The Milviz has the Sperry 177 with more features, along with the FMC. To be honest, I haven't spent much time with the more modern autopilots on the Milviz, because that's now what I want a 737 for. The Sperry 77 will fly a nice ILS approach for you, in both products, but it wants you to land the airplane itself. The PDCS is modeled in the Captain Sim version, but not in the Milviz. It consists of an old CRT with green letters and a keypad. You type in a bit of data, and your EPR settings and the like are calculated. That's about all I can say about it since every time I try to use it it crashes FSX. This seems to be the universal experience. The product has been out a long time now, and still things like the PDCS and aforementioned vref gauge are just flat broken. They don't get in the way of flying, but it's irritating. By contrast, the Milviz is on Service Pack 5! Not to imply that it is flawless, but I noticed fewer things to be irritated about! The Verdict Hung Jury. This is one of those situations where if you could combine the best features of both, you would have a super airplane. By themselves, they're both lacking in different ways. Howver, they are different enough products that the decision might be easy for some. Visually, the Captain Sim airplane is enough better to matter to me, especially on the outside, to matter. But it is satsifying to have Milviz's panel where everything pretty much works. If you don't mind some non-critical bloopers in the flightdeck and are willing to apply a few simple mods, the Captain Sim might be attractive, especially if you like to collect a lot of different, high-quality free liveries. The Milviz offers more models of the -200 for the Great White North, a more functional panel, and the option for retrofitted avionics. But it is brought down by comparatively poor exterior graphics, a more limited selection of repaints, and not everyone is going to like the Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea panel. So I ended up with two old-school 737s. Either one is a decent enough airplane, and together... well, when I get too frustrated with one, the other applies just the right medicine.

Thank you! It's working now. Now I just have to come up with the perfect setup for steam gauges.