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Guest Lobaeux4

Looks like someone's working on another KORD???

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I've been talking back and forth with Wolfgang Schwarz from Simflyers about developers choices in airport scenery. After reviewing Simflyer

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As far as Simflyers goes, they've said repeatedly in the past that they'd do any airport that they could reliably get good and thorough pictures of. That being said, I think part of the problem is that people have a demand for, and an ability to get high quality pics of these airports. I for one, have tried to get pics of Little Rock National-Adams Field, but I haven't had the time to run down there lately. I'm going to try again this week, once the weather gets better. So I think if you could get high quality pics of an airport you'd like to see done, you could probably convince someone to do it.

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I agree with you, while most freeware is designed by the choice of the designer and usually of an area that is important to him, I think if you are doing one soley to share with the simming public it should be one that has not been touched. I'm rather happy with the detailed defaults, at least I can use them as opposed to the Simflyers and single digit FPS. I had actually started working on DFW (my home airport) and then heard about the new version coming out in the new sim, I decided not to finish, wasn't that far along, knew how much work it was going to be and have got plenty of other projects on the drawing board. I feel the same way about aircraft, it amazes me how many different versions (and same repaints!!!OMG) there are of the 737, 747, or 777 and no good King Airs! I guess we can't really complain unless we are willing to try and make them ourselves. Regards, Michaelhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

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If it were up to me, I'd much rather see a version of the newly 'remodeled' Midway airport(over seeing Ohare).

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Lobaeux4 I hear what your saying about finding enough material and/or references to help aid in designing an airport but that is still no excuse for what is going on as a whole. Basically what your telling me is developers can't find much material on airports outside of KDFW, KORD, KLAX, and a few other major airports around the world. That's totally off base. It almost seems the reverse of what you said and that is since one developer has already done KORD, another developer has a wealth of material from that project alone so that cut's back on his/her research time right there. They can go and find little things that were left out in the already released version and market those small updates as a better package... Example is, "Wilco forgot the FEDEX ramp but we here at Simflyers offer more detail and you'll find FEDEX and UPS in our scenery". That scenario makes the most since as to why developers rally around designing the same air fields. I for one know it's easy to find information and/or documentation for airports like KMSP, KDTW, KPIT, and the list goes on....

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Maybe I am missing the point of this thread but what needs to be done to get the airports developed? I totally agree that the same airports are repackaged and provided for download while airports such as those you mentioned earlier and KMEM get overlooked constantly. I know someone will more than likely reply to this thread and ask what have you or I contributed lately to the community, that people like us should just do it ourselves and "give something back". I don't think that is a fair question however because I think most simmers if they had to choose between practicing that CAT III landing with low visibility in the PSS A320 or learning GMAX would opt for the former rather than the latter. I myself included. I just don't have the time. I will gladly pay for someone's quality product without hesitation.

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Believe me, I understand what you guys are saying. There are a wealth of KLAX's, 737's, 747's and such. But, as long as there are people who will poney up the money to pay for these sceneries, people will make them. I for one would like to see a Simflyer's KORD, but that's just because their latest sceneries are so fantastic. Now, saying that, I would also like to see smaller airports done as I enjoy flying commuters more than the heavies, I just can't imagine there's a huge PAYING demand for KPIT, KMSY, KLIT, KMDW or any of the other 'smaller' airports. It'd be fantastic to see freeware examples of these, and we've seen some great freeware airports of KSNA, KDCA, KLGA, KMCO, KSMF, KDTW, KSLC, and a host of others I could probably name. I also think we'll see a whole slew of airports for FS2K4 after it ships.You know, a grouping of small to medium airports, all at one price, scattered across the U.S. would be a huge seller I think.

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As a resident of the Chicago suburbs and a ORD fan, I can tell you that O'Hare has been almost forgotten. The last free ORD was for FS98 and since then there have only been two payware versions, both by Wilco. I have Airport 2000 v2 for O'Hare but I'm not really interested in purchasing Aiport 2002 v1 so for me, Simflyers has solved my problem.[table][tr][td rowspan=2]http://timbo87.home.attbi.com/sig/valiant.gif[/td][td]

Tim Pinkawa

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Alpha Sims Texture Artist/Panel Designer

Tims FS Studio]

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I agree that the same Airports seem to re-occur in FS. Furthermore, there is a freeware version of DTW being worked on right now. I dont have a link but you can find some info about it at PAI. I guess the problem with Simflyers obtaining the info is the way they go about it (don't ge me wrong, I love Simflyers and I have all of their sceneries). They seem to say "give us the info and maybe we will do the airport". Well I say, tell me what you want to do and I will find you the info. I took a bunch of shots for the DTW project because I knew they were going to be utilized. I'm not going to spend a bunch of time taking pictures for them to sit on someones HD. In addition, if you look on their site, they were asking for more info on JFK just a bit before they released the scenery. Now, I conclude two things from these posts on their site.1. If they ask for the info for a specific airport, someone will give them the the info. There enough FS nuts around the world to provide the needed info. After all, the did release a beautiful version of JFK and they needed additional info not too long ago.2. They obviously deciede on airport before they have all of the required info. Who knows, maybe they had the more info for ORD or JFK than any other. Nonetheless, If they made a announcement like, "We are considering doing DTW, SDF, SAN..., which ever airport we obtain the most info on first we will produce". I bet they would get flooded with valuable info.BTW,If you are looking for a good MMMX, look at Vans Eam2002 payware. It is not quite Simflyers quality but the package includes something like 60 Mexican airports, AFCAD's and Mexican mesh. Nice package. I just got it and I am very happy with it.JeffDetroit, MI USA

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agreed...I think it is a bit funny when folks say 'my airport has only a few freeware sceneries and only been done payware twice...' My local airport KPDX in Portland Oregon has never been done payware, not even close. This is the largest airport in this state and the 5th on the westcoast. It is ashame too because because not only do I have oblique photos of it from the air, the Port of Portland site also has many great photos. Heck, in my line of work (architect), my proximity to the airport, my past projects out there and my hundreds of ground level photos it seems like I could be a help to a payware developer. Heck, I will even do and Autocad 3d model of the place and export it to DXF file format.I also have a ton of data for KSEA and was in contact with a payware producer for this airport, but once I learned that it was in for 'enhnacement' for FS2k4, I sort of lost track of it. KSEA has always been one of the 'enhanced' airports so it seems that it would not make much sense anyways. I think I posted on this very topic a while back about how great it would be to be able to purchase a CD with just the largest airport done for every state. Even if they where not 'exact' like we are getting know but just better then default. I would pay upwards of $80US for somthing like that.just my two cents.

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I would pay for something like that as well. Perhaps it is something that Simflyers or somebody else could work on with some other developers. It would be nice to have all of the main US airports in one package. Germany Mexico and the UK have it, so should the US. Personally, I have noticed that the scenery cfg has a limited capacity and it is a pain to have hundreds of individual scenery packages floating aroung my HD. One stop shopping would be really convenient. Heck, even MS could produce such a thing. Release a US add on, Asia add on and a Canada add on every so often. Maybe even improved mesh could be developed. Afterall, that Mexico scenery package I mentioned above contains 60 airports. It could keep the $ flowing between FS releases. I'm sure some developers (like Simflyers) would be willing to take part considering the MS name recognition and and the marketing channels. Many people could make a mint and my scenery collection would improve. I'm sure the guys at MS have thought of this and there are some roadblocks unforseen by my 12 pack influenced logic, but it sounds good to me. I hate to say this considering the amount of freeware I have downloaded and the third party add ons I have purchased, but I think MS is really missing the boat.JeffDetroit, MI USA

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I agree, KPDX is overlooked. But the largest airports in each state? Then we'd have some remakes as well, but it's a good idea. Now as far as the UK and Germany. The good UK ones are done in a regional pack, the Germany ones I think are spread all over. There could be regional packs of airports, maybe even based off of ARTCC's, a Seattle CTR, Kansas City CTR, Jacksonville CTR, etc. Maybe doing like the Germany airport series, a couple of major airports, a couple of middle sized, and some small airports in each ARTCC. I'd definetley pay for that as well.Lobaeux

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There is an FS2K airport that works under FS2K2 for KMSP by Ron Ackerly. It has a very high polygon count and you will need an AFCAD for it, especially with the exception of the auxilliary international smaller Humphrey annex is extremely complete. I use it as my home heavy base. It has moving traffic, parking ramps are full, and surrounded by the appropriate highways and spurs with moving vehicles.There is a review here on AVSIM and can be found at Flightsim.

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Could you send me your AFCAD files for that FS2k KMSP airport???

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Rgr that, my same thoughts and feelings about it Tim. Wilco's Airport 2002 for ORD is nice from what I have seen, but it would take a 4 GHZ machine to get 15 FPS LOL. I usually get 15 to 20 fps with SimFLyers and I can't wait! It is time that somebody did this airport within reason and tastefully! :)-----------Wilson HinesChief CaptainBush Logistics Corp.http://heavylhc.comAOL IM: dal276whhttp://heavylhc.com/images/av/anna.jpg

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Actually I think Atlanta is the busiest airport in the world, but O'Hare is second.Lobaeux

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I think KPDX needs to desperatly be done. I really hope MS has done something about, andd if it is not decent, I will talk with MS! I sure hope somone plans something good for this airport!My two cents...

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You might want to check out both KBOI2003.zip and KPDX2003.zip by Andrew Niiranen over at AllNodesAreCurrentlyBusy.com.If you try KPDX2003 be sure to follow the installation instructions and put the landclass file in the main scenery directory or it will screw up all your ground textures.

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You know what would be nice is if Simflyers or MS on there next version did Class C airports. Just a handfull of them would be nice like Providence, RI KPVD and/or West Palm Beach, FL KPBI. They could charge the same as there other scenery but it wouldn't take as long to make since these are smaller airports. Plus the frame rate might not be as big of a hit since theres less gates and the field is smaller. Just and idea.Kilstorm

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Obviously scenery developers only have a finite amount of time. I for one would appreciate anything which is an improvement over scenery suplied by MS. For example I have some scenery installed for Beijing which the author admits "bears only a vague resemblance to the actual airport", I think the textures are those that come with MSFS but at least it is an improvement. I do get frustrated when I land at what I assumed was a major airport but seems to be populated with a couple of sheds and a refuelling area.I would certainly appreciate something which paid less attention to detail and more attention to quantity.

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KMIA hasn't been done since early 1999 (FS98) ....... it's one of the busiest airports in the world ....

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MicroSoft is doing KMIA in the default scenery of FS2k4. Speaking of airports that haven't been done since the last century, KBOS comes to mind. Everyone knows this is a major airport on the east coast but look at how many times this airport has been done.

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O.k. Tim and Wilson think about this, at least KORD has been done not only by Payware developers but MS as well. You guys have a choice in what to either purchase or tolerate (MS default, Airport2000, Airport 2002, Wilco, etc.). But what about the countless major airports that haven't even been looked at such as Portland Oregon or Vancouver BC. You guys sound selfish seeing that you have choices in scenery but most of the rest of us don't...

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