Work with me here Ryan, why is the Basic version offered and nothing else? If you released all versions at the same time we could take our pick. Why aren't you guys releasing all the versions now? It's because their not finished right Ryan so money needs to get generated before the holiday season? Another thing that's kind of interesting is we're in November already which is scary as the Intermediate and Advanced versions may not see the light of day until next year hence the rush to get something out. It's a little disingenuous to Flight1 to ask all of us to return our Basic versions once the other versions become available. I don't think Flight1 would appreciated that kind of backlash. It's far easier for all involved if you just did what other developers have done and offer an upgrade discount. Your comment about we can't change things I beg to differ. People not buying makes all the difference to any business...

if one product is finished before the other, why would any reasonable business hold the finished product?.flight 1 has a 30 day money back garantee. 30 days, isn't a long ways away. Who's to say the advanced will or won't be out in that time frame? the fact is, this is the current finished product. the advanced version is still under work and it will be released once done.P.S. I said I can't change it, I'm not a paid employee at airsimmer. I'm a volunteer who helps look after the extended team.the ultimate decision would be up to Zoya, as this is her business.I do put emphasis on business though, Airsimmer has many paid members who work. there has to be profits in order to allow the developers to continue working. (first rule in life is that nothing is free). This not an attempt to be "Sleezy" it's an attempt to increase profits, in a fair, Clearly laid out and manageable way. if you can design and market your product to appeal to a mass, rather than a niche you greatly increase profits, allowing growth (WHo likes the snailspace anyway? i'd rather see this project go for a 1.5 year development time and be Done. If you want the advanced WAIT for it. if you want the Basic, your product is available today.Employees cost money though, such is business. I promise this isn't in an attempt to cheat anyone though, for those who Know Nik, Zoya, Vasily, or kathy I think it's agreeable to say that they're all very nice people. they aren't out to "Getcha" 'nor is flight1. They're selling their product which is finished, and another product is still in the works to be finished.

You had to pay to be on a beta team. Any one else really surprised.

if one product is finished before the other, why would any reasonable business hold the finished product?.(...)They're selling their product which is finished, and another product is still in the works to be finished.

You must be kidding, Ryan. Then please explain this text from your forums:

Although it was always our intention to release a completely bug free product, the realities of the current economic crisis effecting all of us to some measure, have forced us to reconsider and to release the Basic edition before each and every bug has been fixed. Although we are proud of what the team has accomplished thus far, we want to categorically state that, even though none of the remaining bugs are critical to product performance, we are by no means satisfied with the state of the product. We are absolutely aware of every bug currently unfixed in the Basic edition and commit to you that our team will not rest until they are dealt with through frequent updates (free ??) via the AirSimmer Tablet PC. We appreciate your patience and understanding while we proceed to fix these remaining imperfections.

Wasn't the bug-o-meter at 59% a few days ago?Regards Chris

Ryan,"No Compromise"From Airsimmer Forums by Vasilius "Although it was always our intention to release a completely bug free product, the realities of the current economic crisis effecting all of us to some measure, have forced us to reconsider and to release the Basic edition before each and every bug has been fixed. Although we are proud of what the team has accomplished thus far, we want to categorically state that, even though none of the remaining bugs are critical to product performance, we are by no means satisfied with the state of the product. We are absolutely aware of every bug currently unfixed in the Basic edition and commit to you that our team will not rest until they are dealt with through frequent updates via the AirSimmer Tablet PC. We appreciate your patience and understanding while we proceed to fix these remaining imperfections."So did they ran out of Extended Team money or were they tired of being called vapor ware.

You had to pay to be on a beta team. Any one else really surprised.

Negative, E.T. members paid to be part of the Extended team, and received a 30 percent discount on their product.Airsimmer has a Tighter Test team that consists primarily of what you'd find in your average FS Beta group. (extremely Hardcore simmers, and Pilots)CK, you just further stated airsimmer's commitment to customers. Business decisions vs. Sleaziness are two entirely different things. Thugs and thiefs are sleazy. Businesses do well........Business, each has their own way of achieving it. Releasing bug free software is virtually impossible, have you seen major complaints regarding bugs vs. Business practice? no....The Bug-O-Meter applies only to the Advanced version, it's interconnected directly with the Advanced version Bug Reporting system.

Negative, E.T. members paid to be part of the Extended team, and received a 30 percent discount on their product.Airsimmer has a Tighter Test team that consists primarily of what you'd find in your average FS Beta group. (extremely Hardcore simmers, and Pilots)CK, you just further stated airsimmer's commitment to customers. Business decisions vs. Sleaziness are two entirely different things. Thugs and thiefs are sleazy. Businesses do well........Business, each has their own way of achieving it. Releasing bug free software is virtually impossible, have you seen major complaints regarding bugs vs. Business practice? no....The Bug-O-Meter applies only to the Advanced version, it's interconnected directly with the Advanced version Bug Reporting system.

Was the product in BETA? Why else for the months of fixing bugs and a NDA. So ET team team members still have to pay for the released product.

Business, each has their own way of achieving it.

I completely agree with you. But I'm quite sure that Airsimmer won't achieve anything by this behaviour.

Releasing bug free software is virtually impossible.

You know the company called PMDG?

The Bug-O-Meter applies only to the Advanced version, it's interconnected directly with the Advanced version Bug Reporting system.

As I can't check it I have to believe you. But as I don't believe Airsimmer anything from today, it is hard to believe you.Although I have to state you're doing an admirable job in defending your friends' company against the FS community's anger and criticism.RegardsChris

You know the company called PMDG?RegardsChris

I actually was thinking 'Dreamfleet' in preparation to address this statement but you beat me to it... :(We made sure everything was given the once over before we released a product. We had a nice upgrade option for the 'lite' Baron to the RXP version.

Was the product in BETA? Why else for the months of fixing bugs and a NDA. So ET team team members still have to pay for the released product.

oi oi oi,Once the advanced version is released, the ET's licenses will be setup to work with it. The E.T. already owns their advanced A320, for assistance in bug testing, and feedback they received 30 dollars off the product.ET Members don't have to pay for the product *The advanced version* They own it.if ET Members wished to get the Basic (I can't see why they'd want to? most of them are fairly "Hardcore" styled simmers) they're subject to the same rules as everyone else. they must pay for the Basic version. the advanced has everything the basic has, plus quite a bit extra with regards to depth in FMGC modeling ECAM Etc.the PMDG MD-11 had bugs when it was released, so what? do YOU know how extensive the bugs are? do you assume they're massive flailing totally wrong to the A320 sorts of bugs? or just nuances? I'd be willing to put money on that you didn't, I'd probably be willing to bet the bugs you're thinking "They're ackowledging" are much bigger than what they actually are.Regards,Ryan Briggs

Ryan with this bargain version do customers get the A318/19/21 with liveries for the various airlines? Looking on your site it seems as if all this is included. I'm surprised I'm not seeing any Delta repaints for the A320 which is a real let down...

oi oi oi,the PMDG MD-11 had bugs when it was released, so what? do YOU know how extensive the bugs are? do you assume they're massive flailing totally wrong to the A320 sorts of bugs? or just nuances? I'd be willing to put money on that you didn't, I'd probably be willing to bet the bugs you're thinking "They're ackowledging" are much bigger than what they actually are.Regards,Ryan Briggs

I like that oi,oi,oi-thing, so I decided to leave it in the quote. :( About the PMDG MD11: This was one of the best releases I have seen for years. The bugs were so extremely minor, that many magazines for flight-simulation called the MD11 completely bug-free. Same thing about their Jetstream release. Airsimmer has to prove and beat this first, before calling something finished, especially when it was rushed out like your "basic edition". And by the way: We are talking about a fully developed MD11, with all systems working, right?And what did I read about your "as bugfree as PMDG"-release yet? Not working engine startup-sound, loss of cabin-ventilation-sound,... I'm sure we can extend the list during the next 24 hours. Sorry, I don't believe any of your "bug free" postings.RegardsChris

Sorry for the misunderstanding about ET members having to pay for the full version also.

I like that oi,oi,oi-thing, so I decided to leave it in the quote. :( In terms of the PMDG MD11: This was one of the best releases I have seen for years. The bugs were so extremely minor, that many magazines for flight-simulation called the MD11 completely bug-free. Same thing about their Jetstream release. Airsimmer has to prove and beat this first, before calling something finished, especially when it was rushed out like your "basic edition".And what did I read about your "as bugfree as PMDG"-release yet? Not working engine startup-sound, loss of cabin-ventilation-sound,... I'm sure we can extend the list during the next 24 hours. Sorry, I don't believe any of your "bug free" postings.RegardsChris

I'm going to make a Clear definition, I'm not an Airsimmer Employee. you're going to argue this to the death, so I'll ignore you. Not once did I say it was bugfree, it's acknowledged that it's Not bug free, and that No software is.PMDG's J41 suffered from its FMS Going black, that's surely somewhat of a standout bug ain' it?I'll stop the comparing there, since you clearly don't understand the Point.Dillo,Re: Product page;http://www.airsimmer.com/products.htmit states the other models are available, not that they are included.the CFM model includes a delta paint job.Those who have questions (That don't violate my NDA) feel 100% free to ask, I've stated what i have with the best of my knowledge regarding the subject. For those who are hot headed about the topic (CK) feel free to continue on flaming about a product you've never flown, and to which many of your arguments are based on speculation. If you're so worried or sickened about it.........Try it, you have a 30 day grace period (and if you decide you want the advanced, which you probably will.....get your moneyback and wait, or don't buy it at all it makes no difference to me). Flight1's not going to dishonor that, 'nor will Airsimmer.

Ryan, afaik you're a mod at the airsimmer forum and you're not a part of the dev team, or the management or anything.. So my question is why on the earth you're trying to lawyer these guys for free?

I'm going to make a Clear definition, I'm not an Airsimmer Employee. you're going to argue this to the death, so I'll ignore you. Not once did I say it was bugfree, it's acknowledged that it's Not bug free, and that No software is.PMDG's J41 suffered from its FMS Going black, that's surely somewhat of a standout bug ain' it?I'll stop the comparing there, since you clearly don't understand the Point.Dillo,Re: Product page;http://www.airsimmer.com/products.htmit states the other models are available, not that they are included.the CFM model includes a delta paint job.Those who have questions (That don't violate my NDA) feel 100% free to ask, I've stated what i have with the best of my knowledge regarding the subject. For those who are hot headed about the topic (CK) feel free to continue on flaming about a product you've never flown, and to which many of your arguments are based on speculation. If you're so worried or sickened about it.........Try it, you have a 30 day grace period (and if you decide you want the advanced, which you probably will.....get your moneyback and wait, or don't buy it at all it makes no difference to me). Flight1's not going to dishonor that, 'nor will Airsimmer.

I see only one hot-headed person and that is not me.By the way: I migrated to FSX so I can see this marketing disaster from a very relaxed point of view.But as you wish: Feel free to ignore me. I can easily live with that.RegardsChris