ATI 5870 or Nvidia 285

[AlphaInfinity 13]

My system specs are in my sig. I am going to order one of these two cards in a few weeks. For FSX, which do you think is the best card that will get me the most performance(fluidity in flight)?ATI 5870 or Nvidia 285I am looking at the 1 GIG cards.

[Guest UlfB]

Hi,A thead for you: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=263062

[AlphaInfinity 13]

Hi,A thead for you: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=263062

I saw that thready earlier and this is what I took away from the thread:A. The 5870 is a faster card but you sacrifice image quality(According to NickN)...so is it really faster for FSX when the image quality is less than the 285? Are 5870 owners seeing the shimmering? Have newer drivers helped with that issue?B: The 285 is a great card but is beaten in all other game benchmarks(non-fsx) but it has superior image quality with basically the same performance(a few fps difference)

[GSalden 4,664]

I saw that thready earlier and this is what I took away from the thread:A. The 5870 is a faster card but you sacrifice image quality(According to NickN)...so is it really faster for FSX when the image quality is less than the 285? Are 5870 owners seeing the shimmering? Have newer drivers helped with that issue?B: The 285 is a great card but is beaten in all other game benchmarks(non-fsx) but it has superior image quality with basically the same performance(a few fps difference)

Over the last 2 weeks I was able to test the EVGA GTX285 FTW , Sapphire HD5870 and EVGA GTX275 SSC 1792mb.The Sapphire HD5870 is the fastest card , but the image quality is less than with the NVIdia based cards. To get an image quality almost like the NVidia based cards shopw in FSX, all features, to improve image quality ,have to be set to maximum. But than the fps drops fast and making this card it about the same speed as the GTX285.The EVGA GTX285 FTW is a very fast card and the image looked good.The EVGA GTX275 SSC 1796mb gave me slightly better fps than the GTX285 and the image quality ( AA/AF ) looked also better than the GTX285. Normally the EVGA GTX285 FTW should be the fastest card, but on my system the EVGA GTX275 SSC 1792mb was the fastest card and gave the best image quality. I contacted EVGA about this and they told me that the 275 is based on the GTX260 board with an underclocked 285 processor.All components are improved components compared to the days the 260 , 280 and 285 where manufactured.So at the end I returned the ATI card which I bought myself the EVGA GTX275 1792mb card.

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Gerard,My EVGA GTX 275 with 1796mb seems to be the magic element in my computer mix, and as you found, preferable to even the GTX285. I can only refer to my own particular case, so as Nick says, milage will vary...

[Guest djt01]

so is it really faster for FSX when the image quality is less than the 285? Are 5870 owners seeing the shimmering? Have newer drivers helped with that issue?

Image quality is only better with the GTX 285 in FSX when nHancer is used. Without nHancer the GTX 285 displays just as much (if not more)

[AlphaInfinity 13]

Image quality is only better with the GTX 285 in FSX when nHancer is used. Without nHancer the GTX 285 displays just as much (if not more) “shimmer” with certain textures as the 5870 does. The 5870 does outperform the GTX 285 in FSX when multi-sample AA is used on both video cards. The Super-Sample AA option with the 5870 eliminates the shimmering texture issue and produces the best image quality I’ve seen of any card but it will show a performance hit when flying into cloud cover. AMD/ATI seem to be optimizing Super-Sample AA with each new driver revision so hopefully performance with get better. As far as other games are concerned in my experience the Super-Sample AA option has been usable and provides much better image quality and performance compared to anything I’ve seen from my GTX 285. If you want to see something impressive grab a copy of NFS Shift or Dirt2 running in DirectX 11 along with the 5870, you’ll soon be asking, “what’s FSX”? ASUS Rampage II Extreme (1639 BIOS) Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition w/Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RTMushkin Redline Ascent 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-6-5-18-1N)Asus/ATI 5870 (Catalyst 9.11)Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1tyWD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows 7 Ultimate 64WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/ProgramsWD VelociRaptor 150GB - XP Pro 64 Bit Edition/SP2WD VelociRaptor 300GB – FSXPC Power & Cooling T1KWSR 1000WLIAN LI PC-A70B ASUS Rampage Extreme (BIOS 1202) Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 w/Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtremeMushkin XP3-12800 Ascent 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 EVGA GTX 285 FTW (195.62)Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1tyWD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows Vista Ultimate 64/SP2WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/ProgramsSILVERSTONE 1500Watt SSTSILVERSTONE TJ09-B

So the EVGA 275 with 1792 seems to be pretty good overall and outperforms the 285? I am assuming that this is because of the memory advantage it has over the 1 gig card? How do you think the 275 would stack up against this card:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...0-486-_-ProductThe reason I ask is because it as well as the 5870 are pretty close in terms of price. Nvidia 285 with 2 gigs or 5870 with 1 gig? Interesting dilemma.My resolution on my monitoring is set at 1920X1200(native res).

[TechguyMaxC 516]

FSX doesn't use anywhere near 1GB of VRAM, let alone 1792MB so that doesn't explain the difference in performance. I imagine your 275 is clocked higher than most 285s, which would explain the difference.

[SpiritFlyer 987]

So the EVGA 275 with 1792 seems to be pretty good overall and outperforms the 285? I am assuming that this is because of the memory advantage it has over the 1 gig card? How do you think the 275 would stack up against this card:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...0-486-_-ProductThe reason I ask is because it as well as the 5870 are pretty close in terms of price. Nvidia 285 with 2 gigs or 5870 with 1 gig? Interesting dilemma.My resolution on my monitoring is set at 1920X1200(native res).

I would think the GTX285 with 2 gigs would certainly outpreform the 275 by feature of it's larger bandwidth, but that would depend upon the clock speed. The GTX 275 1792g seems to overclock well as benchmarkers have proclaimed and I can attest. It's all in the numbers I suppose. As far as the 5870 is concerned I have no direct knowledge but found Nick N's analysis interesting. It's found on one of these threads somewhere. Apparently it is a bit difficult to compare apples to apples between the two namebrands due to quality variations when used in FSX. Either of these cards would be great!Stephen

[Guest djt01]

So the EVGA 275 with 1792 seems to be pretty good overall and outperforms the 285?

I don

[AlphaInfinity 13]

I don’t know where you got the idea that the GTX 275 is going to outperform a GTX 285?Take a look at the specs on the 2GB GTX 285’s. You’ll see that the RAM is clocked ridiculously low compare to their 1GB counterparts. I had a 2GB GTX 285 factory overclocked (EVGA “FTW”) that was out performed by a 1GB GTX 285 because of this. Even at high resolutions with the AA cranked I found no advantage to using the 2GB version. ASUS Rampage II Extreme (1639 BIOS) Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition w/Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RTMushkin Redline Ascent 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-6-5-18-1N)Asus/ATI 5870 (Catalyst 9.11)Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1tyWD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows 7 Ultimate 64WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/ProgramsWD VelociRaptor 150GB - XP Pro 64 Bit Edition/SP2WD VelociRaptor 300GB – FSXPC Power & Cooling T1KWSR 1000WLIAN LI PC-A70B ASUS Rampage Extreme (BIOS 1202) Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 w/Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtremeMushkin XP3-12800 Ascent 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 EVGA GTX 285 FTW (195.62)Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1tyWD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows Vista Ultimate 64/SP2WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/ProgramsSILVERSTONE 1500Watt SSTSILVERSTONE TJ09-B

Read the post above by Gsalden, thats where I got t he idea.

[Guest djt01]

Read the post above by Gsalden, thats where I got t he idea.

The EVGA GTX275 SSC 1796mb gave me slightly better fps than the GTX285 and the image quality ( AA/AF ) looked also better than the GTX285. Normally the EVGA GTX285 FTW should be the fastest card, but on my system the EVGA GTX275 SSC 1792mb was the fastest card and gave the best image quality.

Now that

[Tabs 2,790]

There's really just two reasons the 285 looks better:1. ATI doesn't have hybrid combined AA modes - what the 8XS AA mode actually is is a 4X multisample AA pass (which is what normal AA is) and a 2X supersample AA pass being applied at the same time. Supersampling is able to smooth transparency textures, which are what the trees, power pylons and other autogen objects that shimmer in the distance are. Multisampling only gets the edges of actual polygon geometry whereas supersampling is a "full scene" process. This is why it's so much harder on the video card - the card is literally creating multiple higher resolution versions of the whole screen internally and using those to create the SSAA. The combined mode lessens the performance drop by using both types.2. ATI's drivers don't have a negative LOD clamp. Games engines will sometimes attempt to negatively "bias" the filtering of mipmaps in an effort to sharpen the image. This works when the scene is stationary, but when you're using high levels of AF on the card and the scene is moving, it'll cause the shimmering in the actual textures themselves. The clamp setting overrides what the game engine is trying to do and it makes textures shimmer much less.If ATI added these features to their driver, the 5870 would look indistinguishable from while performing better than the 285.

[Guest djt01]

There's really just two reasons the 285 looks better:1. ATI doesn't have hybrid combined AA modes - what the 8XS AA mode actually is is a 4X multisample AA pass (which is what normal AA is) and a 2X supersample AA pass being applied at the same time. Supersampling is able to smooth transparency textures, which are what the trees, power pylons and other autogen objects that shimmer in the distance are. Multisampling only gets the edges of actual polygon geometry whereas supersampling is a "full scene" process. This is why it's so much harder on the video card - the card is literally creating multiple higher resolution versions of the whole screen internally and using those to create the SSAA. The combined mode lessens the performance drop by using both types.2. ATI's drivers don't have a negative LOD clamp. Games engines will sometimes attempt to negatively "bias" the filtering of mipmaps in an effort to sharpen the image. This works when the scene is stationary, but when you're using high levels of AF on the card and the scene is moving, it'll cause the shimmering in the actual textures themselves. The clamp setting overrides what the game engine is trying to do and it makes textures shimmer much less.If ATI added these features to their driver, the 5870 would look indistinguishable from while performing better than the 285.

Yes this was discussed months ago -http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...63062&st=25With the Catalyst 9.11

[GSalden 4,664]

Now that