HD Ground Textures for FS9...

[january 19]

Alex, with all due respect I think you've totally misunderstood the response you've gotten from people about the three monitor setup. I've been flightsimming for many many years and three monitor setups are not a particularly new thing. They've been around for quite some time and most all of us recognise the benefits of the wider FOV. Theres no doubt about the fact that we humans can "see" a much wider perspective in reality than what we see at normal zoom levels on one monitor in the sim. We can pretty much all agree on that. The problem is that you seem to see three monitors as a solution for issues that have little or nothing to do with FOV issues. Things like texture resolution and mesh detail just don't have anything to do with how many monitors you are using to view the FS world. They are things that benefit everyone no matter how many monitors you use. You aren't really making earth-shattering news by promoting a triple monitor setup. In fact Id almost go so far as to say the idea is almost common sense really. But even were I using three monitors (or more) I'd still want higher definition textures and better mesh.

Zevious: forget the monitors- they are simply the vehicle. You can have triple views on a single monitor! (I have a screenshot if anyone is curious.) It's the 3 times as wide, integrated view that counts. With the relaxed eye focus necessary to take in this wide view, the human is able to see less detail per unit of area. ( It has to do with the structure of the eye and retina.)Hence less need for fine scenery detail. The eyes/brain are filled with 3 times the detail of a single view seen by itself!!!In a narrowly focused (single) view we can see more detail per unit of area. (Again related to the retina.)Hence more need for finer scenery detail. But I think enough- the vet tells me this horse is dead and should be buried quickly!Seasons Wishes Alex Reid

[Dillon 2,208]

Can we please get off the monitor discussion and talk about textures... :( Alex use what you want and people like me will use my 23" monitor with TrackIR, go flying on the weekends in the real thing, and marvel at how close FS9.75 can actually get to the real experience for a fraction of the cost. All I want to have now is a simple discussion about the prospect of HD city textures so maybe some developer reading this can consider it. I could care less about three old bulky 'off white' 17" monitors sitting side by side displaying a single image in unison. It's an old concept that was once a novel idea when 2D panels was our only option... :( Now let's get back to hopefully giving someone a great idea for the next super cool add-on that'll make all of us happy (if one of us doesn't figure out how to do it ourselves first)... :(

[red1 0]

( It has to do with the structure of the eye and retina.)

Exactly what part of the eye and retina structure and physiology are we talking about? Being a doctorate student, I have yet to learn that aspect of the retina, which gives less detail about a virtual image if seen on a very wide resolution.

[january 19]

Exactly what part of the eye and retina structure and physiology are we talking about? Being a doctorate student, I have yet to learn that aspect of the retina, which gives less detail about a virtual image if seen on a very wide resolution.

From Wikipedia- lots more there for any who wish a better understanding of vision."Peripheral vision is weaker in humans, compared with other animals, especially at distinguishing color and shape. This is because receptor cells on the retina are greater at the center and lowest at the edges (see visual system for an explanation of these concepts). In addition, there are two types of receptor cells, rod cells and cone cells; rod cells are unable to distinguish color and are predominant at the periphery, while cone cells are concentrated mostly in the center of the retina, the fovea.Flicker fusion threshold is higher for peripheral than foveal vision. Peripheral vision is good at detecting motion (a feature of rod cells), and is relatively strong at night or in the dark, when the lack of color cues and lighting makes cone cells far less useful. "-------------------------In the UK, minimum field requirement for driving is 120

[Dillon 2,208]

It can be done. Here's a picture from BlueSky Scenery's Phoenix. It just takes a lot of work. This doesn't include seasonal or night textures, nor any autogen, but it's a really good start and shows what's possible.Personally, I think it looks amazing.

The more I look at this picture the more it's obvious that HD textures in city areas is very possible in FS9. What are your framerates and load times for this scenery? Load times won't be an issue with an add-on covering only city areas. This looks like a promising prospect...

[scott967 63]

The more I look at this picture the more it's obvious that HD textures in city areas is very possible in FS9. What are your framerates and load times for this scenery? Load times won't be an issue with an add-on covering only city areas. This looks like a promising prospect...

Going through this long meandering thread, I have yet to understand what is meant by "HD textures in city areas".Could you please define this term?scott s..

[Dillon 2,208]

Going through this long meandering thread, I have yet to understand what is meant by "HD textures in city areas".Could you please define this term?scott s..

Scott if you have GE Pro look at how muddy the textures look over the city when flying down low. Protzler has shown us (picture is in this thread) what's thought to be only accomplishable in FSX can be accomplished in FS9. Now comes texture load times which is something that's a problem with FSX on many machines because all it's textures are more refined than FS9. I propose that we can have the best of both worlds if we can get an add-on that only covers city textures to make them more like what you see in FSX versus the muddy globs we have today. We don't need anything for rural areas because GE Pro more than covers that. If something was developed that only covered city areas that would be perfect. All we need is updated city textures at this point. I'm sorry things aren't quite clear as some among us would rather start talking the benefit of multiple monitors on a single desk versus discussing the topic.

[red1 0]

From Wikipedia-

Exactly, our retina is geared to see central detail. I want to try to make it clear to you that this does not mean that with more peripheral vision, we lose that central detail...we only gain a sense of motion, if anything. That fact I think we can all agree with. Just wanted to make sure you understand that correctly. We have hi-jacked this thread a bit, I apologize...no more.

[Mike_CFII_MEL 825]

Hi,Ok, back on topic. So what company(s) has the ability to create such an addon?. As FS9.75 users, how would we (FS9 community) convince such a company that this type of addon/product is wanted by a majority of FS9 users and that we would be willing to pay for such a product.

[Dillon 2,208]

Hi,Ok, back on topic. So what company(s) has the ability to create such an addon?. As FS9.75 users, how would we (FS9 community) convince such a company that this type of addon/product is wanted by a majority of FS9 users and that we would be willing to pay for such a product.

My first pick would be 'Zinertek'. They've done a pretty good with their other 'specific' type add-ons like Ultimate Water (which is outstanding by the way). These guys are really the only ones that seem hungry enough to take on a challenge like this and do a good job with it. Flight1 is another one but it's a crap shoot as to what they'll take on...

[Guest FengZ]

I'd also love to have HD ground textures. However, there is a technical limit within FS9. The original polygon/texture resolution of the "generic" ground is very low (256x256 per tile i think). Even if you put in a higher res, FS9 can't display it. However, i thought the same for clouds, but apparently FS9 allowed for 1024x1024 clouds (default is probably 512).There is a way around it (probably)...but it takes A LOT of work and will eat up huge memory. That's to basically change the entire world of FS9 to an "add on" scenery. If it's an addon, FS9 allows for high-res textures (up to 1024x1024). So for example, instead of having just an airport, all 5000sq miles around the airport are also part of the addon. This can work, but the texture load will be insane (most likely crash your PC). Mods like this has been done (look at games such as Oblivion, Fallout 3, etc.), but it just takes a ton of work.-feng

[Dillon 2,208]

I'd also love to have HD ground textures. However, there is a technical limit within FS9. The original polygon/texture resolution of the "generic" ground is very low (256x256 per tile i think). Even if you put in a higher res, FS9 can't display it. However, i thought the same for clouds, but apparently FS9 allowed for 1024x1024 clouds (default is probably 512).There is a way around it (probably)...but it takes A LOT of work and will eat up huge memory. That's to basically change the entire world of FS9 to an "add on" scenery. If it's an addon, FS9 allows for high-res textures (up to 1024x1024). So for example, instead of having just an airport, all 5000sq miles around the airport are also part of the addon. This can work, but the texture load will be insane (most likely crash your PC). Mods like this has been done (look at games such as Oblivion, Fallout 3, etc.), but it just takes a ton of work.-feng

Then how can you explain the screenshot in this thread? After REX I believe anything's possible within reason in FS9. On page one of this thread 'Protzler' showed us what's possible in FS9 for a large area. Why can't this same thing be done for confined areas like cities and towns? I'm tired of believing what can't be done when I see people turning around and doing it. Remember the argument that Fly By Wire wasn't possible in FS9. Low and behold Airsimmer is pulling it off to a point their bird doesn't need FSUIPC to run. It can be done it's just a desire to make it happen has to be realized by some developer.

[dallyborr 2]

More resolution, more textures, more memory, more HD space...it is possible, as Feng said, to make it like one BIG scenery. But i'm not sure if FS can handle that huge one...or PC. In real life, you got seven, six, ten, in other words, bunch of computers that calculate plane flight. Now, in your home you got just ONE, and that ONE, with modern add ons like PMDG and so on, must handle all the work. So, there is little or non, space left for huge scenery calculations, real weather, AI planes...Well, maybe it's possible who knows. VFR France is good example...

[Dillon 2,208]

More resolution, more textures, more memory, more HD space...it is possible, as Feng said, to make it like one BIG scenery. But i'm not sure if FS can handle that huge one...or PC. In real life, you got seven, six, ten, in other words, bunch of computers that calculate plane flight. Now, in your home you got just ONE, and that ONE, with modern add ons like PMDG and so on, must handle all the work. So, there is little or non, space left for huge scenery calculations, real weather, AI planes...Well, maybe it's possible who knows. VFR France is good example...

Come one now... :( All we are talking about here is replacing the city textures with HD ones not totally redoing the whole world. We've explained this over and over again. This would be something to piggy back off of GE Pro...

[Guest FengZ]

Dilloll0, you are not understand what we are saying; because i totally understand what you are getting at.You want to replace all the ground texture tiles with higher res ones. HOWEVER, FS9's engine doesn't allow for it. When the artists at MS created the Mesh and UV mapped them with textures, they locked the resolution to 256x256. So if you replace this with a 512x512 or 1024x1024, the engine can't display it and will crash. The reason why it works with clouds is because MS artists/game engine allows for 1024x1024 texture sheets. This is a limitation of the engine, and not because nobody wants to try it.The reason for the screenshots in this thread is exactly what i was talking about. The screens you've seen here are just a TINY area of the world. The author created an "Addon" scenery, which overwrites the default. By doing this, you can by-pass the 256x256 limitation. However, if you want 512 or 1024 textures for the whole world (or cities and towns), you'll have to individually create each city/town. Thus referring back to the "entire world of FS9 can be an addon" i said earlier. This is sorta of possible (if someone spends 5+ years doing it). However, current PCs probably can't deal with the amount of data it needs to spit out in real time.REX didn't hack FS9's code to achieve their results. They simply replaced any textures which allowed for high-res textures. GEPRO did the same thing w/ better default textures...but hit a limit at 256x256 (i actually think the default tiles are 128x128...correct me if i'm wrong...cuz 256x256 is too big for most video cards to load...considering the number of tiles).anyways, it's possible, but not with "replacing default textures." You can do it by creating another "shell" of Earth ontop of FS9's default Earth....-feng