Debugging the ASA build 435 errant TAT problem, found likely cause

[jordanal 70]

Hi All,Damian is actively working on a fix for this. I spoke to him about it this morning.

:( :( :(

[JSkorna 138]

LOL, I have no idea what else it might include so please do not ask because I won't know until I see a test Build!!PS: look at everyone reading this! I see you!!

[HUSSAR 272]

LOL, I have no idea what else it might include so please do not ask because I won't know until I see a test Build!!PS: look at everyone reading this! I see you!!

Ahh, but you were not around when I was reading it just now... so you did not see me! Thanks for the update Jim.

[Bob Scott 7,776]

I just ran into the TAT problem again (I see it 2-3 times on average on long flights lately), and I noted that in the wx config page, no matter what station I pulled up, every TAF was showing a blank line after the "TAF:" and was decoding to BKN at -1120 and OVC at -1020 ft on the text lines below. The winds, temp, etc looked like they were properly decoded from the METAR depicted above the empty TAF line. I tried to select a station with "good" data, but clearly the problem wasn't the data. I finally got it off dead center by unchecking the "Force to sim time" box and hitting the refresh button.At the time the error occurred, I had selected wx from KCVG with a range of 50nm, and I was still within 50 miles when it wigged out on me.FWIW, the profile was offline with a flight plan processed, weather file was from 23 Jan 2010 at 20Z, and the route was KADW LDN J134 BUM J110 BLD J60 HEC J6 PMD RZS DINTY R576 DENNS.MAGGI3 PNHL at FL300RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[Bob Scott 7,776]

I've got some more interesting test results related to the TAT bug in ASA.I have a fairly reproducible TAT excursion using the 23 Jan 2010 20Z dataset, on J110 just west of RSK VOR in northern Arizona between 1715Z-1815Z.I wrote a program that automatically freezes the sim when the SAT exceeds ISA + 30. I'm looking in the FSX weather page at the ASA-created route weather stations near RSK--FSX displays a map of the wx stations, with ASA-generated names like "Virtual Station Left RSK0," "Virtual Station Center RSK1," etc...and FSX allows you to mouse over the stations and look at the data. Several of the stations around me and out in front of me have the temp set to +59deg F (15 deg C) and pressure at 29.91, while most of the others show -59 deg F and 29.68. It looks pretty clear to me that ASA-created route virtual weather stations with bad temp/pressure data are behind at least some of the TAT "shoot-downs." Pulling up the weather config page, selecting KFMN, and clicking on the "Apply WX" button cleared up all the bad stations for as far out in front of me as FSX projects.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[ST1322 10]

I will add from me. Yesterday I was flying from KJFK to EDDF. flight plan uploaded and I decided to... have a look on the route situation. All stations across Atlantic had the temp problem which was showing as clouds below sea level + wrong temperature. So I decided to use ASA but without flight plan filed... and it worked. Flight went smooth and weather still was as predicted. One thing is interesting. Usually TAT problem occurs with Advanced Intepoolation and when virtual stations are created, but ONLY when flight plan is loaded. In other cases - even with route enhancement etc there is no problem - ok at least I have not seen it.Maybe this observation helps :(

[Bob Scott 7,776]

I will add from me. Yesterday I was flying from KJFK to EDDF. flight plan uploaded and I decided to... have a look on the route situation. All stations across Atlantic had the temp problem which was showing as clouds below sea level + wrong temperature. So I decided to use ASA but without flight plan filed... and it worked. Flight went smooth and weather still was as predicted. One thing is interesting. Usually TAT problem occurs with Advanced Intepoolation and when virtual stations are created, but ONLY when flight plan is loaded. In other cases - even with route enhancement etc there is no problem - ok at least I have not seen it.Maybe this observation helps :(

I don't think you actually get route enhancement unless you have the checkbox selected AND you load your route.I just ran this route again with Wireshark sniffing the IP traffic, and ASA did just as Lek observed...I saw an odd temp of -10F up ahead at virtual wx station 2202 on FSX, then a few minutes later ASA started throwing a global SetWeatherObservation with a negative cloud altitude, then it wrote negative cloud values to the closest virtual weather stations, and then my watchdog program paused the sim as the temp skyrocketed out of limits.Another problem I note that seems bound to be causing trouble is the fact that the virtual weather stations ASA is creating are located at sea level...so when ASA creates a cloud deck at 1200 ft AGL based on a station height of zero MSL, but (as in this case) the terrain around the virtual station is more like 5400 ft MSL, you're creating a cloud deck that's 3600 feet below ground level. Inspection in the FSX cloud layers verifies that ASA is creating cloud layers with 2000 ft MSL base heights in areas where ground elevation is over 5000 ft MSL. In one case, KFMN has a station height of 5528 ft, and virtual station RSK0 created by ASA is located a few miles away but at 0 ft MSL...yet ASA sets the same AGL cloud heights at both stations. Hint: it might do someone at HiFi well to re-read Petraeus' earlier observations about the relationships between cloud heights and altitude reference planes.I'd like to see, as a start, an "urgent" interim fix with a failsafe filter applied just before the SetWeatherObservation command is sent that prevents cloud layers with negative heights from being transmitted to FSX...because that is causing catastrophic problems in the simulation for a bunch of us. The depicted enroute cloud levels will still be wrong, but at least that way it wouldn't boof the entire platform while a more thorough fix is worked.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[JSkorna 138]

Hi All,We are privately testing SP2, at this time.

[sbclark 55]

Jim,How is the testing on a fix progressing?I have basically stopped using this package as it doesn't work nearly as well as ASv6.5 did when running under FS9. Where there is rain on the weather map, as one example, it appears different when I pass thru the area affected.I'm looking forward to the solution.Bill Clark

[JSkorna 138]

Hi,Testing is going along!

[ST1322 10]

Hi all,Actually I just noticed that the TAT problem and clouds at minus level happens... mainy in Europe. i have never seen this problem in US as of yet.

[Guest nemo06]

Hi All,We are privately testing SP2, at this time.

A perfect test can be done on the route Catania Fontanarossa-Lamezia Terme.Bug is present also in FS9.1

[sbclark 55]

Jim,Has ASE fixed the problems mentioned in this thread and similar threads about ASA?If not, are the developers still working on a fix for ASA?Bill Clark

[josman2001 0]

Jim,Has ASE fixed the problems mentioned in this thread and similar threads about ASA?If not, are the developers still working on a fix for ASA?Bill Clark

That question I post Here:http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=277690

[sbclark 55]

I saw your post, but I want to see what Jim says about SP2 and the new version.It appears to have been fixed in ASE....just verifying.Bill