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Glass or 'Steam', what's your preference?

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Guest jshyluk

I remember the cockpit from the old Concorde. That was like looking at a wall of wristwatches. Still, after a while, one can make sense of the patterns of all the needles. Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

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I remember the cockpit from the old Concorde. That was like looking at a wall of wristwatches. Still, after a while, one can make sense of the patterns of all the needles. Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM
Newer pilots brought up on modern glass say EXACTLY the same thing! It's all about assimilating the `flow` - the river of information. Those trained on steam struggle to accommodate the `informatics` of glass because they have to adjust not only to the additional flow, but also the change in the way the information is presented. On a wet day in the clubhouse the old and new pilots discussed this while hoping for VFR, and while I'm kinda `in the middle` in terms of experience with about a thousand hours in powered aircraft, I have used FS as a means to become more familiar with glass and am now reasonably comfortable switching between the two, which gives me an advantage over both sides when allocating a rental - I don't care if its glass, steam or something in between, whereas the newbies don't want steam, and the oldies don't want glass... so they wait for the right plane to be available.And to pick up on Geofa comment about a Cirrus glass reboot issue, I've lost count of the number of new - and old - pilots who have followed the `from` rather than the `to` needle on a VOR, however briefly... I've lost count of the number of times I've had to take off, or stay on the ground, when my non-digital aircraft has a gauge malfunction and I cannot remember when our two club aircraft with glass (a 172 and a 182) were grounded for more than a few hours waiting for a repair on the digitals, but I can personally recall tens of wasted hours while we wait for a mechanic to come and fix the latest breakdown on primary gauges... and most importantly in our part of the world the number of airspace incursions as a result of improper use of navigation instruments that are less precise and more vague in information display to start with. So it goes both ways, as ever.

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My favorite plane right now is the Quest Kodiak (Lionheart Creations): I really love the glass cockpit!!! It has all the information I need in the VC. I really don't like flying without a GPS-map anymore (in the VC). All the info I want and need is there (like radio freqs, runway information, etc.) It's absolutely great. The Kodiak is the best GA I've ever had, really! (Not only because of the glass cockpit and the great VC (which is an EXACT copy of the real one) but also because of the (real life) specs: fast, powerful, can get you really anywhere: it's a GA-dream come true!)

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My favorite plane right now is the Quest Kodiak (Lionheart Creations): I really love the glass cockpit!!! It has all the information I need in the VC. I really don't like flying without a GPS-map anymore (in the VC). All the info I want and need is there (like radio freqs, runway information, etc.) It's absolutely great. The Kodiak is the best GA I've ever had, really! (Not only because of the glass cockpit and the great VC (which is an EXACT copy of the real one) but also because of the (real life) specs: fast, powerful, can get you really anywhere: it's a GA-dream come true!)
Only the craziest, crankiest old git would argue that GPS with map display hasn't been a major step forward in situational awareness. Even steam jockeys nearly always have a GPS in the cockpit. OK, so it comes with it's own set of pitfalls, but then so do steam gauges and, just as biplanes were eventually outmoded by advances in aerodynamics, construction and customer expectation, so steam gauges will eventually fall out of favour, if not out of use as they will always be a market for them. The single biggest advance has to be GPS WAAS, turning almost every runway into an ILS, and of course opening up the possibility of precision curved approaches for obstacle avoidance, terrain clearance or good neighbourliness. HITS will be the ONLY way to fly such approaches so the digital guys will be flicking a digit to the steam guys when they are able to land and the Old Skool are not. One might argue that virtual terrain display is also a wonderful addition but I must admit I am less enamoured of something that takes more `head down` time to make full use of. I recall a flight a couple of years back where my PIC was unable to `see` the urgent traffic pointed out by ATC because he was looking at the Garmin, not out the window where the lights were quite plainly and easily visible. It delayed the avoidance manoeuvre by several seconds.

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Well I couldn't find the thread at this late hour for me where I posted the aopa link...but if I recall-those with in between 0-1000 hours the rates were much worse for those with glass, along with those who did not frequently fly.
That's understandable since they don't know their way around the panel yet. And they haven't established a good flow to take in all the information. IMHO at least

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One might argue that virtual terrain display is also a wonderful addition but I must admit I am less enamoured of something that takes more `head down` time to make full use of. I recall a flight a couple of years back where my PIC was unable to `see` the urgent traffic pointed out by ATC because he was looking at the Garmin, not out the window where the lights were quite plainly and easily visible. It delayed the avoidance manoeuvre by several seconds.
The virtual terrain/ synthetic vision will be most useful for IMC/IFR operations, as well as just plain darkness. That's where "head down" time works anyway. L.Adamson

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I much prefer steam. If one has a power failure or selective instrument failure then the flight can still be "normal" with steam.If the glass goes in turbulence or at night or in IMC or at a critical flight phase the standby instruments are not visually and ergonomically in the right place and often too small to be seen clearly.Vololiberista

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Defintely prefer the glass cockpits, but I think there are some basics of navigation (basic VOR radial/NDB) that are often learned best on steam guages before moving to glass. Glass certainly gives you the best SA, but it seems easy to never learn the basics if you aren't forced in to a little worse SA from time to time.


Eric Szczesniak

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Guest jshyluk

I've mentioned this before, but some bush pilots I've spoken with absolutely hate GPS. It's not reliable in arctic northern latitudes and it loses signal in the valleys up there. I would suggest that the type of flying you do would influence the type of instrumentation you would want to have. Being a Canadian, I would propose the most Canadian of solutions: cockpits should have both sets of gauges. I see that as the trend now. Maybe in 2019 when the Blade Runner flying car gets going, cockpits will be all digital. I suppose this is science fictional thinking, but perhaps the flying car will decide how cockpits will look in the future. A), the vehicle will be flown by computer but directed in part or in whole by the driver and maybe by an integrated traffic control system, B) The controls and displays will need to be simple enough for drivers and not pilots. A massive de-clutter will need to take effect. A computer can monitor and operate many features "under the cowling", while the driver simply makes the choice as to where to go. A couple of years ago, I was reading on how Israel is apparently hard at work on making a flying jeep/bus. The sticking point is automating the flight with computers, otherwise the vehicle will look a fair bit like the VTOL's out of Avatar. Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

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I've mentioned this before, but some bush pilots I've spoken with absolutely hate GPS. It's not reliable in arctic northern latitudes and it loses signal in the valleys up there. I would suggest that the type of flying you do would influence the type of instrumentation you would want to have. Being a Canadian, I would propose the most Canadian of solutions: cockpits should have both sets of gauges. I see that as the trend now. Maybe in 2019 when the Blade Runner flying car gets going, cockpits will be all digital. I suppose this is science fictional thinking, but perhaps the flying car will decide how cockpits will look in the future. A), the vehicle will be flown by computer but directed in part or in whole by the driver and maybe by an integrated traffic control system, :( The controls and displays will need to be simple enough for drivers and not pilots. A massive de-clutter will need to take effect. A computer can monitor and operate many features "under the cowling", while the driver simply makes the choice as to where to go. A couple of years ago, I was reading on how Israel is apparently hard at work on making a flying jeep/bus. The sticking point is automating the flight with computers, otherwise the vehicle will look a fair bit like the VTOL's out of Avatar. Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM
If that's the case why don't they just make glass simulations on the LCD screens... after all, we KNOW it can be done..! :( Seriously though, how many cases of total LCD failure have there been? Against the number of serious steam failures in the same time frame? It should be pretty easy for the Garmins and Avidynes of this world to actually create a basic six which could be swapped for the high-level SA stuff a a flick of a switch. Keeps the purists, the fundamentalists, the early adopters and probably even the clergy of any denomination happy. Best of both worlds - and if anybody does it, I came up with it first, not that Bruce Artwick or that Austin Meyer geezer :(

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As for the amalgamation of technologies it has already been done!!!Many a/c fly with apparent steam instruments which are in fact digital and non machanical. The Royal Air Force in the UK has equiped many of their a/c such including the VC10!!Vololiberista

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As for the amalgamation of technologies it has already been done!!!Many a/c fly with apparent steam instruments which are in fact digital and non machanical. The Royal Air Force in the UK has equiped many of their a/c such including the VC10!!Vololiberista
I was thinking more FS Vololiberista! Hence the reference to Bruce Artwick (founder of the Flight Simulator dynasty) and Austin Meyer of X-Plane... :( It is not mere coincidence that Highway in the Sky (HITS) replicates the training mode of many a flight sim version with the `fly through the hoops` concept.http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9luae_ae...-virtualhu_newsCars have had digital dashes with `lookalike` analogue gauges appearing on digital displays for years, and the early generation of digital instrumentation actually started by replicating the common instruments steam gauge look - think of the Meggitt displays in the Piper Meridian for example, or the first generation displays used by Boeing in the 767 and the 757 or McDonnell Douglas in the MD80 to name but a couple...The reason that digital displays have begin to eschew the `conventional` display methodology of steam is because they don't need to compound the error. Just as aircraft ergonomics on the field of cockpit design continues to evolve, so does the study of Situational Awareness and data assimilation. Second generation digitals provided far more information on their screens than the average pilot could easily and quickly interpret, and now third generation products are emerging which automate the display of relevant data, as well as provide a number of alternatives for the display of that data for the pilot to select - picture-in-picture, heads-up display and combined presentation being some of the latest techniques. The `less is more` philosophy combines with `green is good` and the old airliner `dark, quiet` concept to produce the data streaming of tomorrow, allowing pilots to get, assimilate and respond to the greater level of information-input. There is simply no way that steam gauges can match that growth potential, save by adding yet more gauges.

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Guest CryogenicPilot

The FAA mandates commercial airliners must have a standard set of back up steam gauges in case of LCD failure.I like this philosophy, but I don't know if it is cost effective for GA and recreation flying, though.

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The FAA mandates commercial airliners must have a standard set of back up steam gauges in case of LCD failure.
I don't think so. They must have a set of backup instruments independently powered (with independent sensors) but they don't have to be "steam".A cursory look at cockpits of some of the latest 747-400, 737NG, 787, etc - no 'steam' gauges to speak of.

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I don't think so. They must have a set of backup instruments independently powered (with independent sensors) but they don't have to be "steam".I cursory look at cockpits of some of the latest 747-400, 737NG, etc - no 'steam' gauges to speak of.
They're there. Usually sandwhiched between LCD monitors...and often only the "big 6". At least, they're there on my PMDG bird's VC's and the pcitures I've seen online.

Eric Szczesniak

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