Hope it helps solving this problem.

Hi Harry,every problem has a cause and aftermathThe aftermath we are able to prevent, the cause is the developing code.And a bug like this, should never have passed the quality standards.regards

@Paul GBosak: This is my last posting in this thread. It

15 years ago I did my own business in developing applications for companies. My explanation of the error is correct and a developer with knowledge could understand what happens in the source code. It

Hi Harry,every problem has a cause and aftermathThe aftermath we are able to prevent, the cause is the developing code.And a bug like this, should never have passed the quality standards.regards

Hi Paul GB,Sorry to say, but I think you'r introducing this so called bug yourself. Although the FMA indicates NAV, if there is a selected (even not activated) heading in the MCP HDG window, then you'r in for unpredictable turns with your next heading selection.As said before in the MD11 it makes no sense to update the heading with every track change. The moment you are doing this you also tell the system that you require a right or left turn, even when you don't execute that turn.If you like to keep this heading update habit, then please push the NAV button on the MCP after doing this. Your dotted heading line and bowtie will disappear (sorry) but at least the heading "in the system" is synchronized with the present heading, making it ready for the next (left or right) heading selection. This is indicated by dots in the MCP HDG window.If you want to keep a look at your updated heading line and bowtie continuous, and have the last selected heading value in the MCP HDG window, then for every turn you want to really execute (ATC for instance) then you have to synchronize yourself by pushing the heading knob first.Your options!Just flown the arrival at LOWW without trouble. No push needed first cause the heading was sychronized (MCP HDG dots)Hope it helps.Regards,Harry

P.S. Are you two a double act? You do know that moderators can check IP's if they think it necessary.

Although it isn't worth responsing on your conspiracy theory, there are humans out there, who have the knowledge to prevent being detected if it seems to be required. I hope at least the staff knows what i mean, appart from that happy checking IPs:-)If you can't realize that there is more that one customer out there who challenge things and is able to compare with the given manuals, you'll find no satisfaction in a forum like this.It is even not neccessary to put your comments on every topic you seeming not interested in.

hi harry,as we said before more than once, this pushing to sync heading shouldn't be needed, even not by changing from NAV to preselected heading to show correct dots in ND and turn in correctly and finally autonomous, if i backup present heading by heading bug or not, when you have a look into the "precisionmanuals" as like in real (watch ITVV MD-11 Martinair, no push needed )but it is essential to prevent this bug in the given situations.

Paul G B,Sorry, just trying to help you think in the right direction. Given two options (your choice), one where "pushing first" is not needed, the second where it is a must to get predictable turns.These options are system related and not intended to prevent what you call a bug.Don't have the recommanded DVD here to watch professionals operating this plane.However I studied the real manuals long before PMDG released them, and applied the knowledge hands-on in the real thing for several years. So re-read my previous post and try to understand why this is not a bug but pilot induced.Regards,Harry

Hi Harry,thx for making a normal discussion possible.Just to give you some background why i was spending my time here:I have this aircraft since release, i always had this behaviour, searched the web finding the reasons on this and thought for a very long time, this "bug" is related on me.I read the manuals and wasn't able to find neccessary information.some simple questions:What is the sense in caching flown course, as Peter described it correctly?Which sense has the white dotted arc in NAV when you can't trust the indication in NAV as seen in my screenshot taken on second after pulling heading bug, the second before in NAV it was indicated correctly? What should i call it else, then a bug? Is it useful? Has the original aircraft the same behaviour? Where are the real pilots that can affirm this, where are the manuals to crosscheck?This are very precise simple questions, but you will not find an answer in the PMDG manuals?You all know, that every other PMDG aircraft handles the heading indication correctly in every mode. You turn in heading as needed, and you can trust the aircraft will turn in preselected heading the shortest way.

I read the manuals and wasn't able to find neccessary information.

Agreed. Manuals could and should be better, but a little experimentation in the air should fill most gaps.

You all know, that every other PMDG aircraft handles the heading indication correctly in every mode. You turn in heading as needed, and you can trust the aircraft will turn in preselected heading the shortest way. Why you all have never asked yourself what is the sense of the shown MD-11 behaviour? Pls, quote the manuals if you find this very interesting information.

No, it doesn't.Fly due north in a Boeing. (PMDG or otherwise does not matter)Dial in 180 and engage heading mode. Which way will the plane turn? There is no way of knowing. Therefore SOP on all Boeings is to not dial 180 of current heading, ever! Dial 90 in prefered direction of turn, engage when ready, and while plane is turning, dial rest of desired heading.

some simple questions:Which sense has the white dotted arc in NAV when you can't trust the indication in NAV as seen in my screenshot taken on second after pulling heading bug, the second before in NAV it was indicated correctly? What should i call it else, then a bug? Is it useful? Has the original aircraft the same behaviour? Where are the real pilots that can affirm this, where are the manuals to crosscheck?

Unlike a Boeing which has no turn indication, the MD uses the white arc to tell the pilot which way it will turn before you actually engage heading mode. And yes, just like a Boeing, that direction can change from moment to moment but in a way that as a trained pilot, you are expected to be able to predict. For example, the screen shoot you are complaining about. The one you posted Jul 18 2010, 08:27 PM where the plane is turning the long way to your heading? The one you say is a proof of a bug? Have a closer look at it. You are not on the LNAV track. "Of course not, I am turning right!" I hear you say, but you are not to the right of the track, you are to the left. The aircraft was turning right to get back on the track when you engaged heading mode, this told the AP to continue the turn it is in until it is on the desired heading. Correct SOP if there is the slightest chance that the plane is already turning in the wrong direction is to push, pull, dial and pull. 1) Push - align heading with current2) Pull - engage heading mode and abort current turn if any - check indicated turn direction3) Dial - dial in desired direction - checking indicated turn direction4) Pull - confirm desired heading set and turn direction correct

This are very precise simple questions, but you will not find an answer in the PMDG manuals?

Already agreed, but the answers are here in the forum and in the air.

I can't make a finally decission if it's a bug on the aircraft, or an essential missing information in the manuals, but you can trust Peter and me, it happens, when you fly the aircraft as real as it gets.And there is NO workaround to prevent it in every Situation, and that's the reason i write simple Questions here no one want to/can answer.

These questions have been answered more then once by more then one person. I am sorry that you do not like the answers or that they are not the answers you want, but that is life. To fly as real as it gets, you must know and understand what is happening in your cockpit, and at all times know what is going to happen next and exactly when. As soon as you try to follow the plane instead of lead it, you will be in trouble.

Nice to see how this thread developped. I read the last page with interest. I see that there's obviously a problem the white arc problem, but I cannot verify it because of lack of time at the moment. The different postings somehow indicate that some people haven't understand the problem description and focus on other things.I wonder why the persons having the problem don't post clear instructions including detailed screenshots how to 100% reproduce the problem so that everyone would be able to see it. Instead, lenghty discussions deviating from the real problem go on and on.I suggest to deliver a reproducable scenario, and I bet the developers are more interested in hard facts and quick and easy instructions with a predictible outcome than pages of discussion filled with no real substance.Maybe the way the pilots expect the white arc to work is different to what it really does in a specific situation, but an analyst needs to be able to look what that special situation could be, so he needs reproducable facts.Just my 2 cent...Andreas

And why not making a video of that scenario ?

No, it doesn't.

hi,why you repeatedly try to overrule customers experience? Who are you? PR manager of PMDG, Chief Beta tester, MD-11 pilot? Did you sit behind me, when this happened? Just a rhetorical question!I don't need your agrees or disagrees, which aren't helpful, too. And they don't answer the questions i posted here. This are assumptions. Not very useful.i think you aren't the correct person to give helpful input here:you want an example, here it is:

The one you posted Jul 18 2010, 08:27 PM where the plane is turning the long way to your heading? The one you say is a proof of a bug? Have a closer look at it. You are not on the LNAV track. "Of course not, I am turning right!" I hear you say, but you are not to the right of the track, you are to the left. The aircraft was turning right to get back on the track when you engaged heading mode, this told the AP to continue the turn it is in until it is on the desired heading.

Nice to see how this thread developped. I read the last page with interest. I see that there's obviously a problem the white arc problem, but I cannot verify it because of lack of time at the moment. The different postings somehow indicate that some people haven't understand the problem description and focus on other things.

hi,yes, it's like talking to a wall!:-)

Maybe the way the pilots expect the white arc to work is different to what it really does in a specific situation, but an analyst needs to be able to look what that special situation could be, so he needs reproducable facts.

I can't totally agree on this.Even you are able to know what a lack of time means, you are able to imagine that other customers have the same time lack.And the less time, we all have, i use it to fly and don't for bughunting. That means before every ordered direction change to make screenshots and after execution on more. Some like to have videos, they should make it on their own, and wait 'til it happens (again), erase all the videos we made and it didn't happen, recode the video if happened and upload, this is not very funny, and non paid! The effect is you don't see more then some others and me have described here, exactly as possible.It would be much easier to include logfiles for each flight which can easily posted, uploaded and finally investigated by the develepment teams out there. In the meantime

Hi Harry,thx for making a normal discussion possible.

Yes Paul GB,Just flown Peter's RJBB missed approach 24L as well, not using the FMS programmed procedure but doing it by basic VOR/radial navigation.I don't claim the MD11 being without bugs, but also operating this part of a procedure did not give me any wrong turns by handling the MD11 as I used to do.Regards,Harry

...yes, it's like talking to a wall!:-)...

Agreed.