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ShezA

SF2k4...No "scenery library" tab???

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I have build 30612 02 and apparently it might be bugy as MS is sending me all new software for other reasons related to install issues only...But I have to ask, do the rest of you have access to the scenery library from with-in FS at all or like me only thru the main startup page/settings/scenery library?If the scenery library can only be accessed thru the main startup page the that really suxors! As that means you haave to completely shut the sim down and restart it just to see the changes you have made.I Take it that there where no scenery designers on the beta team? LOL

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Well you can always use the FlightEnd Flight menu command to get back to the startup screen but you are absolutely correct...there is no option to get to the Scenery Library from within the simulator. That is a whopper.....

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"....I Take it that there where no scenery designers on the beta team?...."Rest assured I was, but Microsoft decided to remove the scenery configuration menu, and you can only access it now from the main screen. Also, any scenery changes you do make will only "take" if you restart FS2004. Nope, this is not a bug--it is by Microsoft's design. The beta testers on the team were just that--testers, not decision makers. I'm not happy with the new change--it makes it harder to roll out landclass and test it. But I guess we're all stuck with it, as that's what the MSFS team chose to do.... -JohnBTW--shameless plug for Landclass Assistant. Version 1.4 is in the final stages, and will now interface with FS2002/FS2004 via FSConnect.

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It is understandable though: they want to emphasize that we must shut down the sim for any change we make to the Scenery Library, as per the highlighted red message that appears in its dialog box. In FS2002, if you change more than one entry at a time in the Library, this could cause oddities in the scenery, as I have experienced in some occasions.

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Hi Naji,"It is understandable though: they want to emphasize that we must shut down the sim for any change we make to the Scenery Library, as per the highlighted red message that appears in its dialog box. In FS2002, if you change more than one entry at a time in the Library, this could cause oddities in the scenery, as I have experienced in some occasions."Understandable? LOL!I take you do not do any scenery design, this slows down the process ten fold!

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I personally think its a pain in the rear end.. but eh, gotta get used to it I guess :)

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>I take you do not do any scenery design...:)It is a pain, but many a time in FS2002, I thought better to re-start the sim after some changes to the Library, just to be sure that the changes have been implemented.Scenery design???! What is that? :)

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Hi Naji,There are many a session when I have refreshed the scenery library once every ten minuts for a whole day and on into the night, this really bites! :(

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>>I take you do not do any scenery design...>>>:)>>>>Scenery design???! What is that? :)>:-lol :-lol oh thou of little knowledge :-lolgood one Naji ;-)

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Hi Chris,I am refering to adding custom terrain textures and 3D-objects to a custom scenery folder/with texture and scenery folders.

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Hi Chris,I am refering to adding custom terrain textures and 3D-objects to a custom scenery folder/with texture and scenery folders.

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Hi Paul.Chris is right about issues we had with FS2002 and autogen. With the increased role of autogen in FS2004, the best solution probably was to force a restart when adding or disabling scenery.The autogen was affected by adding 3D objects, runways, etc... and it led to many posts about autogen exclusions that were actually false exclusions. When the sim was restarted, the autogen reappeared.This was a designer's bug, as it would hardly ever affect the end-user of the scenery ( they seldom activate and deactivate scenery folders like designer's do ).Dick

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Paul, the scenery designers on the beta team share your concerns, and have been disappointed about this change also. We aren't allowed to discuss the goings on within the beta process, so I can't say much more...but understand that scenery design was represented on the beta team...and we worked hard to detect the problems with the product.I decided, some time ago, that I'd do the bulk of my modelling testing in fs2k2, and use fscof only as a final check just for the ability to conveniently refresh. For terrain, perhaps it won't work...but for models it sure will.Best,Bob BernsteinEdmonds, Wa

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Thanks everyone for the explanations. I Guess I will just have to live with it then? :)

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>Paul, the scenery designers on the beta team share your>concerns, and have been disappointed about this change also. >We aren't allowed to discuss the goings on within the beta>process, so I can't say much more...but understand that>scenery design was represented on the beta team...and we>worked hard to detect the problems with the product.>>I decided, some time ago, that I'd do the bulk of my modelling>testing in fs2k2, and use fscof only as a final check just for>the ability to conveniently refresh. For terrain, perhaps it>won't work...but for models it sure will.>>>Best,>>Bob Bernstein>Edmonds, WaBob,Thanks for the extra insight as per the design representation on beta. It might have been preferred that if MS felt that they needed to dumb things down for the general public that they could have provided a

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John, I think this is a very poor decision and I'm very disappointed by it. Probably the only people who need to change scenery or access the scenery library while actually flying are scenery designers - and by definition they are the very people who will be aware of any pitfalls in this process. For example, refreshing scenery in-flight can cause problems with autogen. Well, the solution is easy: re-start FS! I use my AutoAsm program to generate Airport 2.60 buildings and trees from the LWM/VTP data. With FS in flight, I run AutoAsm to generate a new Airport file, run the file through Airport to generate the new BGL and then, in FS, open the scenery library and close it again - and then see the modified scenery pop into view! If the autogen didn't work properly it wouldn't matter - because I'm working on Airport objects. The autogen will appear later the next time I re-start FS. If I can't do this in FS2004 then I think it's a very bad decision. My computer is quite slow and it will result over a long period in possibly hours of wasted time. I would hope that in the next version Microsoft would give some thought to the needs of aircraft and scenery designers. Some aircraft and scenery refresh commands that can be mapped to keys would be very useful indeed. Best regards, Cheris Wright

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Hold off guys... There may be a way.. In XML type gauge programming there was a fix I found that could reload XML gauges after modifying them while the sim was running..( 02 & 04 ) (>K:RELOAD_PANELS) The first thing I did when FS2004 came out was to find what was different ( and exciting ) in in the gauges aspect of the sim.. Lo and behold... A variable named (>K:REFRESH_SCENERY). Make a little gauge, place it on the panel and giver a hoot.. Could be the golden nugget.. Send me an e-mail if one needs to be made via the AVSIM mail service. Regards,RomanGREEN BAY PACKERS][/i :-ukliam :-beerchug

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As someone who must have used Scenery Library to force a reload of the scenery many thousands of times over the past couple of years, I can only add my voice to those expressing concern at this retrograde step.As much of my work is with photographic scenery, the inconvenience can be mitigated to some extent by switching the confirm on exit check off and making sure that Previous Flight is my default. Because most of the startup time is taken up with loading custom terrain textures, the difference when working with this type of scenery is less significant. However, when working on other types of scenery, this will be a serious set-back, and as far as possible, I will be tempted to use FS2002 during most of the development cycle (as someone else has suggested) provided what I'm developing is compatible with FS2002 and FS2004.I'd just like to point out that this doesn't just affect scenery designers. One of the tips I added to my photographic scenery manual was that if the scenery had become out of focus, e.g. due to excessive slewing, it could be reloaded via Scenery Library, I know from feedback that many of my users have taken this onboard, and I've already had a posting from a user (not a developer) on the Visual Flight forums expressing disappointment at this aspect of FS2004.JohnVisual Flight - VFR Photographic Scenery of England & Waleshttp://www.visualflight.co.uk

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I concur! This is a very bad move on the part of MS. Although for GMAX and 3D models you had to restart the sim (FS2002) to see the changes, simple changes to airport layout etc. could be effected and viewed by refreshing the scenery library. This will become a pain now.I guess I will follow Bob's example and use FS2002 for scenery design...not a very good solution though.Shez

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