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Guest wathomas777

GF4Ti 4200>>>>ATI 9800Pro...WOW!

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HOLY COW! I am finding it hard to believe that a video card can make such a huge difference! I am still cautiously taking my first steps with tweaking and flying as I installed this card last night. I took great care in making sure my system was clean before putting the card in and firing it up. MY STUTTERS ARE GONE! For the most part there is still very slight frame rate issues with the normal things like clouds/wx/etc, but my sim is running rock steady up around 25fps now with 1280x1024x32bit and 2X FSAA and 8X Aniso. Its really rather remarkable. While the GF4 is a good card, mine being a lowly 4200 just could not push the pixels to do any meaningful AA. It ran great without it, but I just have to have it. I got my 9800 at Best buy for 260$ and a 20$ rebate. Not a bad deal as they were like 400$ just a few months back! The visual qualities are similiar really, a slight advantage IMHO to the ATI card though in most things. Its just now I can run in high res with all the goodies too! FS 2002 is amazing now, I can turn it all on, even with the GF4 I could not do that. I have two minor issues and hope to see them fixed with driver releases. The flashing menu thing (can be overcome with window) and a minor stutter if I pan in spot view. The panning stutter appears to go away once you have panned around a bit also. I highly recommend one of these cards to take advantage of any simulation. I daresay we have finally got a card that can do Antialiasing as good as a Voodoo 5 5500 can! Anyone remember that one? :) Again, all I can say is WOW!! I did not think this was the cure for my stutters either, Im sure there are still some issues but this has made such a huge improvement here its hard to fathom. Hornit

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BOTH, but mainly 2004, I will be keeping 2002 for a bit longer i think, too many great add-ons to admire in there. I will get rid of it, just not right away. I have almost 9Gigs worth of stuff in there!Hornit

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Congratulations! Now that you don't need that GF4 anymore, care to send me your old one so I can replace mine that got fried and stop using this P.O.S. Geforce FX 5200 (non-ultra)? ;)-Max Cowgill

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I am a bit amused, I must say. I don't want to start a flame war or anything, but here I am with a GeForce 4 MX420, and I am getting similar quality and the card cost me less than $100.00I've read review after review and have been told that the MX420's are a piece of garbage, But, I am finding that the only thing I am missing are water reflections (which I have heard are a bit flaky when compared to FS2002).I am using a mid-range XP home 2400+ Athlon Compaq that I purchased for 500 bucks, added 512 Meg to the 128 on the system, and then transplanted my MX420 PCI!!! GeForce Card and am very happy with the performance.And judging by others with much bigger cards. AGP 256 Meg behemoths that cost over half of the total cost of my rig, with 3.0 Gig machines, the difference in Frames averages about 5. Wow!!!

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>I am a bit amused, I must say. I don't want to start a flame>war or anything, but here I am with a GeForce 4 MX420, and I>am getting similar quality and the card cost me less than>$100.00>>I've read review after review and have been told that the>MX420's are a piece of garbage, But, I am finding that the>only thing I am missing are water reflections (which I have>heard are a bit flaky when compared to FS2002).>>I am using a mid-range XP home 2400+ Athlon Compaq that I>purchased for 500 bucks, added 512 Meg to the 128 on the>system, and then transplanted my MX420 PCI!!! GeForce Card and>am very happy with the performance.>>And judging by others with much bigger cards. AGP 256 Meg>behemoths that cost over half of the total cost of my rig,>with 3.0 Gig machines, the difference in Frames averages about>5. Wow!!!No offense or anything but I daresay the difference in visual quality between your rig and those which utilize say a Radeon 9800 Pro, would be quite distinct. Unless, of course, you're running 6x AA & 16x AF @ 1600x1200 as these cards are capable of doing. Also, these high-end cards allow for the use of higher settings within the sim itself (larger texture sizes, use of more effects, more detailed textures, etc. etc.).Not trying to rain on your parade, I just happen to disagree with your analysis of the situation.-Max Cowgill

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wathomas777,Turn on AA and AF and watch the GF4MX choke... I was running 4XAA and 8XAF on my brother's 9700 Pro with almost every slider maxed except clouds and AI and it was pinned at 20 FPS in 1280X1024X32... It's a physical impossibility for a GF4MX to do that.Ryan

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wathomas777...Don't think so. Just this past weekend I saw FS9 on a system w/ 1800XP and GF4 MX 440. Wasn't even close to what I see on my 9700 Pro machine. But he was happy, and if you are too, then that's all that matters.Cheers,

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Thats the truth, if your happy its what counts. Truthfully I really doubt that MX is going to even get close to what I am seeing here. I had a GF4MX on the kids computer for a while, its gone now and they have a GF4 Ti4600 which runs great, but it in and of itself was a big improvement over the MX. Now I know for a fact you just cant do what im doing with this card in THIS sim and get the kind of frame rates I am seeing. I was willing to pay the money to get what I want, I dont beleive I could get the same any other way :)We're all happy now! :)Hornit

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Every once in a while I'll read an oldtimer say the 9700/9800 series is as good as the V5500 card was in its day. I prefer to think of them as a V5500 on steroids. Good to hear it's working OK for you. And Great Price!! You can crank that AF up to 16x anytime.

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"good as the V5500 card was in its day. I prefer to think of them as a V5500 on steroids."LOL... Just yesterday I installed Win XP on my daughter's machine (which I built) at her Mom's house. The entire family there uses that computer. I've told my former wife (we are on good terms) that when that computer has seen it's day all I want is to have the 5500 back. Don't know what I'll do with it, but I want it back.Too bad nVidia never made the effort to incororate the hardware AA technology into their cards the past couple of years. Big mistake as far as I'm concerned.

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Tell me if you're still amused after you max all the sliders and set the AA to 6X and the AF to 16X :-) . Oops. What's that you say? You don't have settings that go that high on the MX card? OK, no problem. Just set the AA and AF as high as they will go - the impact on your amusement level will be about the same. Similar quality? Hardly.

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I followed a link on a previous post to an article called "How To Adjust Your ATI 9800 Pro Video Card For Best Results With FS2004"By Cap MasonI figurd what the heck, even though I have a 9700 pro, but some of those suggested settings I thought crazy. Everything is nearly maxed in both display settings and FS9.I still find this hard to believe myself !! ??I can't believe it but it looks even better and it's smoother.Changing from fullscreen and the alt flickering is a little less severe. I believe this is due to changing the desktop settings the same as flightsims.Please, to everyone with these cards, atleast give it a try, follow the step by step instructions. What do you have to lose.Steve

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Hi HornitWhat CPU do you have and how much RAM have you got installed?

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Nice one. Now download and install Omega's drivers ( http://www.omegacorner.com. Try running with full AA, you won't notice much of a slow down. Also with Omega's drivers, the panel lets you overclock (and installed software lets you test for artifacts). I slowly overclocked (first core, test, then memory, test)until I started seeing stuff in FS9. I have mine set at about 405 Core, 360 memory (but your milegae may vary). And that was the only thing that gave me a solid 3-4 fps boost.

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Hornit,$260 for a 9800 Pro card from Best Buy? That's a bit hard to believe. Is it a 9800 or a 9800 Pro? Is it the retail box version (guess it would have to from BB)?Cloud9

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I think it is fair to say that the video card is a much more important variable in the performance equation than most people think. I upgraded from a Ti4200 and I saw a frames boost at busy airports and in the clouds, a general smoothing and better visuals. CPU is important - but a good video card can make a huge difference. Glad to see you are up and running. Colin

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Not hard to believe at all. The 9800 Pro was on sale on the net a week or so ago for $299 after rebate. The 9700 Pro can be had for around $200. And the LOKI is coming to a store near you soon. That's suppose to be twice the power of the 9800 Pro. Can you image that? Isn't that the God of Mischief?? Appropriate name for ATI to give it.

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I have edited my response because I realize that my initial post was petty and mean spirited.This is a hobby we can all get into and luckily for me I can find satisfactory performance without spending a fortune.I have never paid 300$ for a video card and never will. I find that if I can "wait" I can get today's bleeding edge of technology tomorrow and more "sane" prices.So for the time being, I will suffer with my MX for a while and I am glad that you guys are getting such good performance.BTW. It's about time ATI started putting out a "decent" video card for gaming. It's long overdue.

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I'm glad your happy with your mx card. But believe me, you are not getting similar quality. I had a MX card, and once you put in a card that is at least DX8.1 compatible, you will never go back to a DX7 card. I thought the same way you did, but I'm testing a Radeon right now. A day later I put my MX back in the slot and laughed. I agree the water reflections need more improvement (FS2002 was way better), but the colors are more vivid and some of the sunsets leave me.......speechless? I'm seeing colors I never saw with the MX. At least get yourself a DX8.1 compatible card , whether it be Radeon or Geforce. It's not just reflections your missing.Tim

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Is that Loki the 9900 card I hear is out next month? I was going to buy a 9800 Pro card soon, but was thinking best wait till that shows up, havent heard much except its just a faster 9800, but twice as fast, who says that?

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> HOLY COW! I am finding it hard to believe that a video card>can make such a huge difference! I am still cautiously taking>my first steps with tweaking and flying as I installed this>card last night. I took great care in making sure my system>was clean before putting the card in and firing it up.>> MY STUTTERS ARE GONE! For the most part there is still very>slight frame rate issues with the normal things like>clouds/wx/etc, but my sim is running rock steady up around>25fps now with 1280x1024x32bit and 2X FSAA and 8X Aniso. Its >really rather remarkable. While the GF4 is a good card, mine>being a lowly 4200 just could not push the pixels to do any>meaningful AA. It ran great without it, but I just have to>have it. I got my 9800 at Best buy for 260$ and a 20$ rebate.>Not a bad deal as they were like 400$ just a few months back!>> The visual qualities are similiar really, a slight advantage>IMHO to the ATI card though in most things. Its just now I can>run in high res with all the goodies too! FS 2002 is amazing>now, I can turn it all on, even with the GF4 I could not do>that.>> I have two minor issues and hope to see them fixed with>driver releases. The flashing menu thing (can be overcome with>window) and a minor stutter if I pan in spot view. The panning>stutter appears to go away once you have panned around a bit>also. >> I highly recommend one of these cards to take advantage of>any simulation. I daresay we have finally got a card that can>do Antialiasing as good as a Voodoo 5 5500 can! Anyone>remember that one? :)>> Again, all I can say is WOW!! I did not think this was the>cure for my stutters either, Im sure there are still some>issues but this has made such a huge improvement here its hard>to fathom. >>Hornit>>G'day Hornit. I remember when you originally posted the question about upgrading your Voodoo. Back then I also remember telling you the Ti 4200 would give you a much better experience all around apart from the anti-aliasing. Your observations about your new ATi card are meaningful to me, because you have previously owned a Voodoo 5500. I have to disregard anyone's opinion if they did not previously own and use a Voodoo 5500, because only ex-Voodoo 5500 really know the "truth" ;) I've never bothered about changing my Ti 4200 because it still cuts the mustard performance-wise quite well. And the poorer quality AA hasn't been that bad because I can run much higher resolutions than I ever could with the old Voodoo. But at the same time, I've kept my eyes open for a card that might combine the very best qualities of my Geforce 4 with the very best qualities of my previous V5500. I'm still not in a position to change anything yet, and to be honest I'm pretty happy with FS2004 as it is - but I'd sure like to get the Voodoo quality AA back and I'd also like to turn on those new 3D clouds without too much of a performance hit. I still remember it was an extremely nervous time for me as I found there was no replacement I could buy for my Voodoo and that the only choice was Nvidia. I guess soon I might have to take another step in a similar fashion. That said, if Nvidia could AA like Voodoo did, I'd probably stick with Nvidia.

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