Talking about shaking your head in disbelief

[Turbine777 13]

... Rail for instance, why still have traindrivers? Its on rails cant go anywhere, there already automatic braking if they pass red signals, etc etc...

I have wondered the same and actually recently asked my brothers best friend who is a Railway Engineer for the MTBA. He said it won't be long but will still have someone onboard to monitor systems and take manual control for unforseen circumstances.

[Jack_C 1]

Hey James. I do and don't agree with some of your points. Pilots are very much monitors these days. But remember, like cars, these planes are built by humans and will fail. Our company a few years ago spent 20-30 MILLION to create a new reservation system and that didn't work out. Now this is just a program that books passengers, etc. I couldn't even fathom how many scenerios a person could come up with that would prbably make a computer crash. I don't know how many times you sit there flying along and you start a descent and during the descent the computer does something wonky and you say "what is this thing doing?". So you have to level down the automation (disable LNAV or VNAV and switch to LVL change) and rebuild the profile. These are just very simple tasks that the computer mishandles. Boeing releases new versions of software for the FMC all the time (think we are on 10.7). Can't you just see this headline "Due to a software glitch and hundreds of people getting killed XXX rreleases version XXX software. This SHOULD solve the problem and if not hopefully no one else has the "beta test" the next version". As for single pilot, an engine failure or fire alone can wreak havoc. For one person to do the duties of two now? I doubt it. There is just a LOT more that goes behind the scenes when the crud hits the fan for one pilot to manage. There are better ways to reduce costs than to reduce the number of crew members. Fuel savings, engine technology, efficiency, PAY THE CEO's what they are worth not because the company is making money because our economy is booming. When a CEO can make the company money in a recession then he deserves a pat on the back in the form of bonuses. Jack C

[FLEX1978 373]

Here in London the Docklands rail system is fully automated and driverless. The chance of that happening on the mainline railway system is remote let alone talking about commercial aviation.When it does happen (and I do think we will get there eventually) it will be done with UAV Freighters first.Michael o'leary is well known for being controversial, bad publicity is good publicity in this case as he has people talking about his airline, a cheap trick but it works.Regards

[bendead 1,085]

Michael o'leary is well known for being controversial, bad publicity is good publicity in this case as he has people talking about his airline, a cheap trick but it works.

Agreed O'Leary said on a French magazine not so long ago : "Flying with standing passengers is not crazy, they do it on trains" :(Benjamin

[Jack_C 1]

Agreed O'Leary said on a French magazine not so long ago : "Flying with standing passengers is not crazy, they do it on trains" :(Benjamin

But to guys like us it makes him look like an idiot and not very smart. Last time I was on a train that hit the wake of a 747 or severe mountain wave.............people get seriously injured by not being buckled down in an airplane. Not too long ago some woman broke her neck and back in in the States because she wasn't buckled in. I agree SOMETIMES that any publicity is good publicity but in the case where it makes you look like an idiot I don't agree.Jack C

[WTE_Pharoah 7]

all it would take is, unfortunately, one crash because a single pilot couldn't cope with the stress, load, etc. As usual, it will take lives before business is made to realise that you can only cost-cut so much. And to think...this guy will earn millions for coming up with idiotic ideas such as this. I would pay EXTRA for the comfort of having a qualified FO upfront rather than a hostie cum pilot.

[JC75 22]

all it would take is, unfortunately, one crash because a single pilot couldn't cope with the stress, load, etc. As usual, it will take lives before business is made to realise that you can only cost-cut so much. And to think...this guy will earn millions for coming up with idiotic ideas such as this. I would pay EXTRA for the comfort of having a qualified FO upfront rather than a hostie cum pilot.

In fairness to this comment....many crashes have actually occurred because the pilot couldnt cope with the stres, load, etc...In fact the complete causes of the crashes were the human error, intervention, not trusting the systems, or just quite simply the effect of human nature. Take for example the Tenerife North KLM incident, although a mixture of factors, the main cause was the Human nature effect of being scared to question the boss! Hence why airlines spend millions on CRM now.So based on that comment the argument could be seen from the other side, remove the pilots to save lives! Playing devils argument I know. But another human nature problem is why often when comments like O'learys are made, is not just he's crazy but because people find change difficult to deal with.Many Biz jets are single crew rated, if you took the argument that in the future the second crew member was someone technically monitoring all what was happening from the ground i.e atc would it be that hard to actual accept that o'learys comment isnt actually that unrealistic?

[Turbine777 13]

I can't find the video I was going to post, but about 7-10 years ago there was a video of a fully automated (remote controlled) airliner that you watch descend into the trees just outside the airfield. Kind of like most of us seen when the LOC & glide slope have an obsticle and you're brought down close but not exact. I've been looking for about an hour and can't find it. I'm sure a lot of you have seen it. It looks like a perfect descent and gradually disappears in the trees, a couple seconds later you see the explosion and tons of dark smoke. I seen it a ton and not until a couple years ago while watching a documetery found out no one at all was on board and it was a test for what we're all talking about here.

[dazz 69]

Is this it Dan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d71ystVFnzY&feature=related

[Turbine777 13]

That's it, thanks. Hmmm, I guess the info I heard was obviously very inaccurate or it was a heavy drinking night... I seen it a while back but I was sure the commentator said it was remote. I think now he may have been talking about the auto land and I'm just remembering it wrong. Thanks for finding it Dario.* Edit:Wow, glad I seen this. It is much longer than whatever I saw it on before and I had no idea it was full of passengers. It's amazing there were survivors.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Turbine777

[dazz 69]

It's not your fault. It looks like many people keep claiming it was an automated flight, and taging vids like it was, thus misleading others.An example http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6471742126749250434# I'm surprised they didn't also claim it happened in Roswell or something.I think I like ryanair's policy and I'm going to save Avsim half their storage space by just using half the letters in my posts from now onbst whses evry1

[JC75 22]

A traggic loss of young life in that crash, but again another example of multiple human errors, by not the just the pilots but many people.But I really still dont get all the ryanair bashing going on in the forum, as I say there is a major difference between what o'leary thinks up for cost saving in the Cabin, and the level of proffesionalism that occurs in the flightdeck. I spoke to an ex british airways training captain who worked for ryanair as a training captain now and he said the compliance with SOPS, and training was far higher than that of what was seen in BA. I am no fan of flying ryanair as I much prefer my creature comforts of a nice bed/entertainment system and free booze. But they certainly are from an ATC point of view one of the best airlines to deal with.

[Jack_C 1]

A traggic loss of young life in that crash, but again another example of multiple human errors, by not the just the pilots but many people.But I really still dont get all the ryanair bashing going on in the forum, as I say there is a major difference between what o'leary thinks up for cost saving in the Cabin, and the level of proffesionalism that occurs in the flightdeck. I spoke to an ex british airways training captain who worked for ryanair as a training captain now and he said the compliance with SOPS, and training was far higher than that of what was seen in BA. I am no fan of flying ryanair as I much prefer my creature comforts of a nice bed/entertainment system and free booze. But they certainly are from an ATC point of view one of the best airlines to deal with.

Hey JC. Don't get me wrong. I am not dissing the pilots. Just their leader. Jack C

[FLEX1978 373]

Hey JC. Don't get me wrong. I am not dissing the pilots. Just their leader. Jack C

Yeah 100% I dont think anyone doubts the professionalism of the flight crew. It's more about O'Leary's ego and constant headline grabbing. It kinda makes the aviation industry look like a joke.Has anyone tried flying into Frankfurt around 8pm GMT solo in a heavy jet and bad weather on Vatsim? descent planning, reprogramming the FMC at the last minute, switching freq and reading back instructions all while flying the aircraft and backing it up with RAWDATA, you can forget about hand flying until your at least fully established. Now imagine doing that in the real world solo with 200 pax sitting behind you!

[TheDanger 182]

Has anyone tried flying into Frankfurt around 8pm GMT solo in a heavy jet and bad weather on Vatsim? descent planning, reprogramming the FMC at the last minute, switching freq and reading back instructions all while flying the aircraft and backing it up with RAWDATA, you can forget about hand flying until your at least fully established. Now imagine doing that in the real world solo with 200 pax sitting behind you!

With a bloody wasp buzzing around your face! :( (Like I had today in the car)