Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Pegasus1

Texture_Max_Load has nothing to do with texture quality

Recommended Posts

Hi to @ll,I would like to know what Texture_Max_Load exactly does. I thought that if T_M_L=4096 would give more texture quality but it's not true. For example: if you install HD textures, of an aircraft, REX textures, or clouds, or anything else ... I though that I have to use Texture_Max_Load=4096 so I get the high quality displayed correctly. I did some tests with HD textures installed, and tried 1024 2048 and 4096. I did screenshots of various scenes, which I saved and used for testing. The textures are all EXACT the same. So Texture_Max_Load doesn't tune the texture quality, it's only to determine the bytes which are pumped for each frame? *******, can you tell me more? Is Texture_Max_Load limited to 4096 or maybe 8192 would also be interpretable by the engine? What would happen if you use lower TMLs, like 512 or even 256 or maybe 0 ?Hope to hear your oppinions. Thank you so far,Pegasus.


Asus Rampage II Extreme X58, i7 920 @4 GHz, 12GB RAM OCZ Platinum @1.646MHz 7-7-7-20 (1T), Noctua NH-U12P SE1366, Sapphire HD-5870 Vapor-X , 30" Dell @2560x1600 pixel, SSD Intel X-25 M for OS, 1 TB WD Caviar Green for FSX, be quiet Dark Power Pro P7 650W AT, Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion + Teufel 5.1 Surround Set, LG Blu-Ray-ROM LG DVD+/-RW, Aerocool FP-01 Flip-Panel, Lian Li ARMORSUIT P60 black, Windows7 64bit Ultimate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest firehawk44
Hi to @ll,I would like to know what Texture_Max_Load exactly does. I thought that if T_M_L=4096 would give more texture quality but it's not true. For example: if you install HD textures, of an aircraft, REX textures, or clouds, or anything else ... I though that I have to use Texture_Max_Load=4096 so I get the high quality displayed correctly. I did some tests with HD textures installed, and tried 1024 2048 and 4096. I did screenshots of various scenes, which I saved and used for testing. The textures are all EXACT the same. So Texture_Max_Load doesn't tune the texture quality, it's only to determine the bytes which are pumped for each frame? *******, can you tell me more? Is Texture_Max_Load limited to 4096 or maybe 8192 would also be interpretable by the engine? What would happen if you use lower TMLs, like 512 or even 256 or maybe 0 ?Hope to hear your oppinions. Thank you so far,Pegasus.
Not sure if you got to see Nick N's post on this subject but maybe this will answer some of your questions: http://www.simforums.com/forums/nicktexture-max-load-post_topic28692.html.Best regards,Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would like to know what Texture_Max_Load exactly does.
Me too :( I believe I once read that textures that are not mipmapped get loaded at theirnative resolution, no matter what the setting. That may be the explanation,but I await the "experts" to weigh in..

Bert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Me too :( I believe I once read that textures that are not mipmapped get loaded at theirnative resolution, no matter what the setting. That may be the explanation,but I await the "experts" to weigh in..
Well im not an expert but ive done a few 4096x4096 HD packages (Ozx bell 206+its exp & the Grumman Goose Redux) and yes what you read is true Textures without mipmaps get loaded at there native res no matter the TML setting,the downside to no mips is that zooming out on those textures will cause a lot of aliasing (sometimes called texture crawl)So if you have a 4096x4096 texture that is mipmapped (mip 1 is 2048x2048 mip2 1024x1024 and so on so forth) and you set your TML to 2048 fsx will only load/display that mipmapped texture to a max of 2048x2048 as for myself i always mip my paint schemes to atleast 2-3 lvls and if i purchase any addons that arent mipped i'll besure to remip them before i take them up,i just cant stand the aliasing...by hey thats me (btw texture aliasing has nothing to do with poly edge aliasing & doesnt get removed with MSAA although SSAA can help due to the way it downsamples but the hit even at x2ss is a lot for most system running at highres'es) if you want to see the diffrence in mipped and non mipped schemes you can download the Goose HD redux package for the default Goose over at Ozx http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/files/file/633-ozx-grumman-goose-hd-redux-120/my 3 schemes (N48550/N79901/N121GL)are mipped mapped down a few lvls (dont recall how many its been over a year since i worked on it)as where butche's(my co artist)schemes dont have mips LatersGizmo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well im not an expert but ive done a few 4096x4096 HD packages (Ozx bell 206+its exp & the Grumman Goose Redux) and yes what you read is true Textures without mipmaps get loaded at there native res no matter the TML setting,the downside to no mips is that zooming out on those textures will cause a lot of aliasing (sometimes called texture crawl)So if you have a 4096x4096 texture that is mipmapped (mip 1 is 2048x2048 mip2 1024x1024 and so on so forth) and you set your TML to 2048 fsx will only load/display that mipmapped texture to a max of 2048x2048 as for myself i always mip my paint schemes to atleast 2-3 lvls and if i purchase any addons that arent mipped i'll besure to remip them before i take them up,i just cant stand the aliasing...by hey thats me (btw texture aliasing has nothing to do with poly edge aliasing & doesnt get removed with MSAA although SSAA can help due to the way it downsamples but the hit even at x2ss is a lot for most system running at highres'es) if you want to see the diffrence in mipped and non mipped schemes you can download the Goose HD redux package for the default Goose over at Ozx http://aussiex.org/f...e-hd-redux-120/my 3 schemes (N48550/N79901/N121GL)are mipped mapped down a few lvls (dont recall how many its been over a year since i worked on it)as where butche's(my co artist)schemes dont have mips LatersGizmo
Thanks for the explanation Gizmo.  Also, Does DirectX need to convert 32bit BMP textures to DXT format before they can be used?jja

Jim Allen
support@skypilot.biz
SkyPilot Software home of FSXAssist / P3DAssist

LionheartVictoryBanner02s-369x97.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey jjathanks for the thanks :)Asfar as im aware no DX will render 32bit bmps stright away without conversion but beaware they take up a lot more space in vram take cumulus01.bmp at 4096x4096 (from FEX) for example fully mipped at 32bit bmp its 85mb converted to DXTC5 .dds its 21mb! at not tomuch loss in IQalso everything that isnt .dds (direct draw surface) has to be flipped before its rendered,now thats done in notime on todays gpu's but if your loading 1000's of textures it can all addup i guessas i said im no expert i just like to tinker ;) i found imagetool/nv PS plugin did a pretty good job at dxtc but these days i run everything i compress(inc the soon to be release Goose HD expansion pack)through NV texturetools II,its x10 faster and gives much better results in areas of high contrast and fine detail only draw back is its cuda based so needs a current NV gfx chipset LatersGizmo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey jjathanks for the thanks :)Asfar as im aware no DX will render 32bit bmps stright away without conversion but beaware they take up a lot more space in vram take cumulus01.bmp at 4096x4096 (from FEX) for example fully mipped at 32bit bmp its 85mb converted to DXTC5 .dds its 21mb! at not tomuch loss in IQalso everything that isnt .dds (direct draw surface) has to be flipped before its rendered,now thats done in notime on todays gpu's but if your loading 1000's of textures it can all addup i guessas i said im no expert i just like to tinker ;) i found imagetool/nv PS plugin did a pretty good job at dxtc but these days i run everything i compress(inc the soon to be release Goose HD expansion pack)through NV texturetools II,its x10 faster and gives much better results in areas of high contrast and fine detail only draw back is its cuda based so needs a current NV gfx chipset LatersGizmo
I'm just a PSP and DxtBmp user.  DXTBmp does the flipping and MipMapping.  Its a handy free tool.  Might try out NV yrxturetools again.jja

Jim Allen
support@skypilot.biz
SkyPilot Software home of FSXAssist / P3DAssist

LionheartVictoryBanner02s-369x97.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi to @ll again and thanks for the detailled explanations so far. I still have some questions and hope you can help. I also use "DXTBmp" and I tried to find if I have 4096x4096 textures installed into my FSX.1.) When I look into my directory FSX\Texture and sort all the files to descending file size, the biggest file is "cumulus01.bmp" with 21.846KB. When I open it with DXTBmp it shows me (DXT5): 4096x4096 - 16bit. That's somehow confusing me, because I did following before: I opened REX 2.0 Overdrive, I choosed 2048 textures for clouds, then I choosed the "Cloud-Set 61 HD Overdrive", and for Cirrus clouds I choosed something else of the "HD Overdrive sets. But in REX options menu I definitely had checked 2048 textures for normal clouds, and 1024 textures for cirrus clouds. Afterwards I clicked on "Install" button. I thought that REX will install 2048 textures, but DXTbump shows me now 4096x4096 as described above. Why?2.) I checked all my subdirs within FSX directory for textures with huge file size and looked at them. None of my found textures (.bmp, .dds, etc...) shows more than 1024x1024 in the top window bar of "DXTBmp" when I open them, except of:- the cumulus01.bmp as mentioned in 1.)- texture of my addon A2A Piper J3 shows 4096x4096 when I open it with DXTBmp (DXT5, file size = 16.385KB)- the HD repaint from ORBX for Carenado's Cessna Skylane 182 RG II and C152 or  (DXT3 and DXT5 file size=16.385KB)even some Carenado aircraft, or Lotus L39c, the freeware Zlin Z-50 by Tim Conrad, feautures only 2048x2048, but the most aircrafts have 1024x1024 (i.e. the Lotus L39C, and even the nice RealAir Duke!). My question herefore is: how can I know if mipmaps are available on a texture, and if not, how do I create them and how do I have to save afterwards the texture set to have it with mipmaps on? So when having mipmaps for a texture it's better for FSX to handle?Thanks again to all,Pegasus.


Asus Rampage II Extreme X58, i7 920 @4 GHz, 12GB RAM OCZ Platinum @1.646MHz 7-7-7-20 (1T), Noctua NH-U12P SE1366, Sapphire HD-5870 Vapor-X , 30" Dell @2560x1600 pixel, SSD Intel X-25 M for OS, 1 TB WD Caviar Green for FSX, be quiet Dark Power Pro P7 650W AT, Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion + Teufel 5.1 Surround Set, LG Blu-Ray-ROM LG DVD+/-RW, Aerocool FP-01 Flip-Panel, Lian Li ARMORSUIT P60 black, Windows7 64bit Ultimate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My question herefore is: how can I know if mipmaps are available on a texture, and if not, how do I create them and how do I have to save afterwards the texture set to have it with mipmaps on? So when having mipmaps for a texture it's better for FSX to handle?
You need a program such as Imagetool (which comes free with the FSX SDK) to open up the textures. Not sure what you are actually trying to accomplish though.. Why not leave the texures the way they are? As you have found, some authors have gone to 4096x4096 textures for "super" quality, but unless your airplane is choking on them... and in that case you can reduce the size without having to resort to Mipmaps. Mipmaps are mainly used when textures are viewed from varying distances, such as AI aircraft and scenery.

Bert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You need a program such as Imagetool (which comes free with the FSX SDK) to open up the textures. Not sure what you are actually trying to accomplish though.. Why not leave the texures the way they are? As you have found, some authors have gone to 4096x4096 textures for "super" quality, but unless your airplane is choking on them... and in that case you can reduce the size without having to resort to Mipmaps. Mipmaps are mainly used when textures are viewed from varying distances, such as AI aircraft and scenery.
Image tool is great. I add max mip levels to all the scenery I buy from Imaginesim to get rid of the shimmerring they have with their stuff.

Eric 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
  • Donation Goals

    AVSIM's 2020 Fundraising Goal

    Donate to our annual general fundraising goal. This donation keeps our doors open and providing you service 24 x 7 x 365. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. We reset this goal every new year for the following year's goal.


    53%
    $13,405.00 of $25,000.00 Donate Now
×
×
  • Create New...