"pd400" is a real-world Caravan pilot.

Excellent !Edit: I'll go undo my mods, and document the listed short-comings.Edit Edit: Nevermind.. it's well covered in this thread...http://forum.avsim.net/topic/294309-speed-temp-issues/

Well.. I'd like to talk to the pilot who signed his name to a Caravan model that can't cruise above 130KIAS.. has poor STOL perfomance, innacurate fuel-consumption, and inconsistent engine gauging.

Brett has a point on the cruise speed ......

Excellent !Edit: I'll go undo my mods, and document the listed short-comings.Edit Edit: Nevermind.. it's well covered in this thread...http://forum.avsim.net/topic/294309-speed-temp-issues/

Yes,It is covered in this thread, which I was very active in you should note. Yes, I was one of the beta testers. Yes I do fly the C208B 80 hours a month. Yes I have been simming since FS95. Do you have time in the Caravan, I'd be interested to hear....As for the speed, even though things get tested, ultimately the testers have ZERO control of when the product is released and what is fixed. However, BE LOOKING for a patch/service pack here soon, that me and someone else have spent countless hours on tweaking and perfecting (well, me mainly testing and commenting), that Carenado should be releasing soon. I don't get paid or anything for this, but since my name is on it (well, the website) I wanted to make sure that it got to be as close to real as possible, after all this is a "game" per se. I don't know if I can share all of the info or not, but we'll say most, if not all, of the things in that thread were fixed and/or improved. However, don't expect to see cruise speeds in KIAS over 140....We do trends everyday here, and unless you are at full torque, you won't see anything higher than that. Typically at 1700/1700 I see 130-140KIAS dependent on weight. If you're expecting to see it hitting 160KIAS in level flight, well...the real thing doesn't, so the sim one shouldn't either.You can't please everyone...

Yes,It is covered in this thread, which I was very active in you should note.  Yes, I was one of the beta testers.  Yes I do fly the C208B 80 hours a month.  Yes I have been simming since FS95.  Do you have time in the Caravan, I'd be interested to hear....As for the speed, even though things get tested, ultimately the testers have ZERO control of when the product is released and what is fixed.  However, BE LOOKING for a patch/service pack here soon, that me and someone else have spent countless hours on tweaking and perfecting (well, me mainly testing and commenting), that Carenado should be releasing soon.  I don't get paid or anything for this, but since my name is on it (well, the website) I wanted to make sure that it got to be as close to real as possible, after all this is a "game" per se.  I don't know if I can share all of the info or not, but we'll say most, if not all, of the things in that thread were fixed and/or improved.  However, don't expect to see cruise speeds in KIAS over 140....We do trends everyday here, and unless you are at full torque, you won't see anything higher than that.  Typically at 1700/1700 I see 130-140KIAS dependent on weight.  If you're expecting to see it hitting 160KIAS in level flight, well...the real thing doesn't, so the sim one shouldn't either.You can't please everyone...

So Cessna's specs are overstated?  Just trying to understand the difference here ......http://www.cessna.com/caravan/grand-caravan/grand-caravan-specifications.html

Hey Tierborn,Please notice that the Maximum Cruise Speeds in that link are listed in KTAS, or Knots True Airspeed.KIAS, or Knots Indicated Airspeed is what you actually read off of the Airspeed Indicator.These are not the same thing.Per the Approved Cessna C208 Aircraft Information Manual or [POH - Pilots Operating Handbook] or {AFM - Airplane Flight Manual} (page 1-10), which I have in my lap and I'm quoting:KIAS (Knots Indicated Airspeed) defined as: the speed shown on the airspeed indicator and expressed in knots.KCAS (Knots Calibrated Airspeed) is defined as (to help understand): indicated airspeed corrected for position and instrument error and expressed in knots. Knots calibrated airspeed is equal to KTAS in standard atmosphere (15˚C/59˚F and altimeter 29.92inHg, losing 2˚C per 1000 feet up to an altitude where temp is -56.6˚C) and at sea level.KTAS is defined as: the airspeed expressed in knots relative to undisturbed air which is KCAS corrected for altitude and temperature (so, non standard conditions if applicable)Basically, to easily remember:KIAS - speed you read (based on the pitot static system. RAM air pressure through the PITOT tube is compared to the STATIC pressure via 5 port holes on the bottom of the Pitot tube, which the difference equals indicated speed)KCAS - speed corrected for installation/system errorKTAS - speed of the aircraft through the airGS (groundspeed) - KTAS corrected for wind.The speeds of KIAS and KTAS are very close on the ground and low altitudes. As you go up in altitude, KTAS increases and KIAS decreases. For example, a Boeing 767 at 39,000 feet (I just saw a picture of this, that's why I'm using it as an example), will indicate 250KIAS. However, KTAS will be upwards of 450 KTAS. GS will be dependent on headwinds/tailwinds.To see KTAS in FS, you can set it to "show KTAS on the airspeed indicator" in Realism Settings. Also, you can use an E6B Flight Calculator to see what your actual KTAS would be. For an example, we'll say what I see when I do trends. At 5,000 feet, temp of 18˚C, KIAS 134, torque 1600/prop 1600, burning 345 lbs/hr, would yield a KTAS of 147.4. Book speed is roughly listed at 152 KTAS, with fuel burn of 350 lbs/hr. I know the new FDE is very close to that. Please bear in mind, that all speeds in the "book" or POH are with a BRAND NEW AIRPLANE, BRAND NEW ENGINE, Seal Level Standard Atmosphere (from above), with an expert test pilot. Engine power etc dwindles with age and engine time.I hope that helps :).Kreg

Hi Kreg,I think you understand now why I post here very seldom and why I'm VERY reluctant to make 'official' changes to the FDEs :( CheersBernt

Hi Kreg,I think you understand now why I post here very seldom and why I'm VERY reluctant to make 'official' changes to the FDEs :( CheersBernt

Bernt!How's things?And yes, I understand, or at least I'm learning that the hard way :(. I was a tester and I didn't get paid and have NO idea how to edit .air and .cfg files. I'm just doing my best to see this through to make it authentic. Maybe it's best to remain anonymous eh?All the best,Kreg

pd400 said: Do you have time in the Caravan, I'd be interested to hear....

No, I do not. But I have been a licensed pilot since 1979.. and an accomplished FS8/9/X modeler. I'm more than familiar with the difference between published performance, and real performance.. and the difference between KIAS and KTAS.. and rates of climb.. and so on. I don't have to have logbook time in a real airplane, to make note when an FSX model misses the mark by upawards of 20% (in more than one area).

pd400 said: As for the speed, even though things get tested, ultimately the testers have ZERO control of when the product is released and what is fixed.

As a beta tester over the years, I know this all too well. And if you read my first post; I have no problem with innacurate flight-models, and know that most need tweaking.. and deemed this Caravan WELL worth the money. MY problem is with a published and touted CERTIFICATE of pilot approved flight dynamics... signed and all.If I were asked to test a C172 (having several thousand hours in them)..I wouldn't 'sign off' on a model that couldn't cruise above 85knots.. took 2000 feet of runway to get airborne.. burned 15gph.. and had an inaccurate tachometer.,, And as a modeler, I wouldn't use a dubious claim to promote my work.

pd400 said: However, don't expect to see cruise speeds in KIAS over 140....We do trends everyday here, and unless you are at full torque, you won't see anything higher than that. Typically at 1700/1700 I see 130-140KIAS dependent on weight. If you're expecting to see it hitting 160KIAS in level flight, well...the real thing doesn't, so the sim one shouldn't either.

For the sake of this discussion, lets just use KTAS. I wouldn't expect more than 140KIAS at 17/17 and at cruising altitude (less, actually)..(at 10,000msl that would be aprox. 178KTAS). But.. this model wouldn't reach anything near that. It's takeoff, climb and cruise performance is way off.. And again.. that's not my complaint. I own every, Carenado, GA model.. and would highly recommend them to any simmer. This isn't even really an argument, and I'm not questioning your expertise (actually looking forward to it).. My issue is with this: http://www.carenado.com/pages/fdC208Bfsx.htm

For sake of civility and such, I will continue this into PM's!

Hey Tierborn,Please notice that the Maximum Cruise Speeds in that link are listed in KTAS, or Knots True Airspeed.KIAS, or Knots Indicated Airspeed is what you actually read off of the Airspeed Indicator.These are not the same thing.Per the Approved Cessna C208 Aircraft Information Manual or [POH - Pilots Operating Handbook] or {AFM - Airplane Flight Manual} (page 1-10), which I have in my lap and I'm quoting:KIAS (Knots Indicated Airspeed) defined as: the speed shown on the airspeed indicator and expressed in knots.KCAS (Knots Calibrated Airspeed) is defined as (to help understand): indicated airspeed corrected for position and instrument error and expressed in knots.  Knots calibrated airspeed is equal to KTAS in standard atmosphere (15˚C/59˚F and altimeter 29.92inHg, losing 2˚C per 1000 feet up to an altitude where temp is -56.6˚C) and at sea level.KTAS is defined as:  the airspeed expressed in knots relative to undisturbed air which is KCAS corrected for altitude and temperature (so, non standard conditions if applicable)Basically, to easily remember:KIAS - speed you read (based on the pitot static system.  RAM air pressure through the PITOT tube is compared to the STATIC pressure via 5 port holes on the bottom of the Pitot tube, which the difference equals indicated speed)KCAS - speed corrected for installation/system errorKTAS - speed of the aircraft through the airGS (groundspeed) - KTAS corrected for wind.The speeds of KIAS and KTAS are very close on the ground and low altitudes.  As you go up in altitude, KTAS increases and KIAS decreases.  For example, a Boeing 767 at 39,000 feet (I just saw a picture of this, that's why I'm using it as an example), will indicate 250KIAS.  However, KTAS will be upwards of 450 KTAS.  GS will be dependent on headwinds/tailwinds.To see KTAS in FS, you can set it to "show KTAS on the airspeed indicator" in Realism Settings.  Also, you can use an E6B Flight Calculator to see what your actual KTAS would be.  For an example, we'll say what I see when I do trends.  At 5,000 feet, temp of 18˚C, KIAS 134, torque 1600/prop 1600, burning 345 lbs/hr, would yield a KTAS of 147.4.  Book speed is roughly listed at 152 KTAS, with fuel burn of 350 lbs/hr.  I know the new FDE is very close to that.  Please bear in mind, that all speeds in the "book" or POH are with a BRAND NEW AIRPLANE, BRAND NEW ENGINE, Seal Level Standard Atmosphere (from above), with an expert test pilot.  Engine power etc dwindles with age and engine time.I hope that helps :).Kreg

i understand the differences . but thanks anyway.  :(   And my current 130 KIAS does not correlate to a 184KTASI did see in you note that the FDE will be modified to more closely aligned with the published specs .. .... 

184 KTAS is for the non-cargo pod model only. As far as I know, the way Carenado has it set up, all the models use the Cargo Pod FDE.I'm sorry you are not seeing 184 KTAS, but I've never seen that in the real Caravan either haha!Yes, you are correct. Be expecting a new FDE to drop soon. It takes work from the "Speed and Temp" issues thread, and then includes a lot of other things I wanted worked on along with thoughts from Fede. We are happy with the new ones. It'll be interesting to see what others think. I'm sure some people will say things like "it's too slow, it's too this, it's too that" :( Such is life!Enjoy the day. Going to bed now in Hawaii!

184 KTAS is for the non-cargo pod model only.  As far as I know, the way Carenado has it set up, all the models use the Cargo Pod FDE.I'm sorry you are not seeing 184 KTAS, but I've never seen that in the real Caravan either haha!Yes, you are correct.  Be expecting a new FDE to drop soon.  It takes work from the "Speed and Temp" issues thread, and then includes a lot of other things I wanted worked on along with thoughts from Fede.  We are happy with the new ones.  It'll be interesting to see what others think.  I'm sure some people will say things like "it's too slow, it's too this, it's too that" :(  Such is life!Enjoy the day.  Going to bed now in Hawaii!

this is all great news thanks.   I love this aircraft now .. so with the changes, it will only get better  :(

http://www.carenado.com/ecommerce/links.php3That is where you can find the new Patch!

http://www.carenado.com/ecommerce/links.php3That is where you can find the new Patch!

THANKS!!.....I won't even begin to get into whether it's more "accurate" but I will say it's much more "enjoyable" and seems more reasonable. Before it was like you were always on the edge of over-taxing the engine. Now I can cruise happily well below redlines. Also it doesn't fall out of the air at lower torque ranges like before on approach. :Applause:Steve

THANKS!!.....I won't even begin to get into whether it's more "accurate" but I will say it's much more "enjoyable" and seems more reasonable. Before it was like you were always on the edge of over-taxing the engine. Now I can cruise happily well below redlines. Also it doesn't fall out of the air at lower torque ranges like before on approach. :Applause:Steve

It's as accurate as we could get it. Fede did the airfile with comments from me. And, the real plane does fall out of the sky when you get below 500 torque :(.