FS2004 autogen/framerate problem WORKAROUND!!!!

[Guest]

To keep bridges at the sparse autogen setting follow these instructions from Kurt M:"You can change the settings in the terrain.cfg file. Backup your original first in a safe place before making any changes. These listings are toward the bottom of the file. Under the bridge listings, change the value for MinAutogenDensity= from 20 to 10. -----------------------// test bridge dataAutoObject="0d9aaae37h,0469438b7h,0ed19d2aah,0101a5306h"AutoObjectEnd="03216f40bh,0434d0f54h,0a0732c9bh,0087fedfeh"ObjectSize=30ObjectEndSize=30ExclusionWidth=30ClipData=0Offset=00PlaceOnWater=1Density=100MinAutogenDensity=10 << from 20 >>// 1 lane bridges//Covered Dirt Road Bridge - gen_bridge06AutoObject="0c9775c1fh,048561e3eh,0ad3416a4h,0b696c0efh"AutoObjectEnd="0b2b05be7h,04b927dafh,0f150928fh,050cc149fh"ObjectSize=9.71ObjectEndSize=16.96ExclusionWidth=30ClipData=0Offset=00PlaceOnWater=1Density=100MinAutogenDensity=10 << from 20 >>----------------------Change the values for // test bridge dataand then for all the bridge listings from// 1 lane bridgesthru//Railroad Bridge 2 (aka gen_bridge05)18 listings in all.Thanks again, Kurt M!Daniel, CYCW

[Guest jabberthecat]

... I took alook at the terrain.cfg. I would like to excludeall the power lines, telephone lines, etc, but keep bridges.Any idea how to do that? It looks there is a massive texture section followed by a smaller autogen section. I am guessing I have to edit the autogen section in some way? Can I just set the MinAutoDensity=100 on objects I don't want, since I never use Extreme Autogen setting?Thanks,Myles

[ulisses 1]

For you guys with stutters, try this:Enter the windows display properties for DirectX and make sure "Wait for Vertical Sync" is Always ON.Inside FS, set the FPS slider to Unlimited (don't blame me)Since you can go back to previous settings, give it a try. Worked fine in some systems.Ulisses

[Bruce Nicholson KMFR 20]

You meant Direct3D and not DirectX, right? There is no Wait for Vertical Sync in the DirectX Display tab.

[JimmiG 244]

Has anyone tried editing out some objects of the xml to see if there's one or a few objects in particular that cause the stutters? If the problem is that it won't "release" the objects when they're out of view, I guess there's not much to do, but it may also be that only one or some objects cause the fps drop. The barns and other rural enhancements don't affect framerate at all, for example, but that may be because they're so few, of course.This workaround will not improve your FPS. The way to see if things improved is not to just load up a flight and look at the FPS counter. You will however notice the difference when flying back and fourth over large cities where autogen would be allowed to a ccumulate.Also, those who get 3-minute pauses, 5 FPS on 3 GHz machines, or other weird problems need to check your systems. Those problems are either caused by incompatible addons or by some error with the computer/OS/Drivers etc.Has anyone contacted MS about this yet?

[E 0]

>Look at Firestone. They made a possible defective product>and paid the ultimate price, lawsuits etc. Actually, some end users paid the ultimate price. Firestone got a slap on the wrist and some bad publicity for awhile, and then pressed on with business.

[Guest Kurt]

-"Can I just set the MinAutoDensity=100 on objects I don't want, since I never use Extreme Autogen setting?-"I believe the best way would be to set the Density= line to 00 instead of changing the MinAutoDensity= line.Kurt M

[Guest OneTinSoldier]

Hi,Yesterday I reported that I didn't think this tweak helped that much. Aftwerwards I renamed the file back to 'default.xml'. Then after doing that, my performance degraded by a large margin when I came in to land in a big city, FPS dropped, I got stuttering. :-boom So I renamed the 'default.xml' file back to 'default.xml.bad', fired up the sim back up again, and made a few passes over the city. I found that my performance was indeed much better. Although my FPS did drop a little when over a large city, it was only droppping ocassionally and only for a couple/few seconds at a time. And even during these momentary drops the sim stayed pretty smooth and didn't start stuttering, like it would do prior to renaming the file. So I conclude that this tweak does indeed work and uncovers the fact that there is a performance bug in the Autogen when using the default.xml file. Without using the default.xml file, the sim rocks! :-simle12 I think this tweak is totally tubular, knarly, and tripendicular! Thank you guys for determining how to fix this problem.Cheers, :-beerchugJim

[SteveLewis 0]

tripendicular??? :-lolI used this tweek and found that my pauses on arrival were nil. The only problem I have now is when FSMeteoe is updating the weather, the sim will stop for a second or two about 4-5 times until the new clouds/weather are installed. Since FSMeteoe uses updated weather at various reporting stations along your route, it updates quite frequently. (I have FSUIPC 3.06 Payware, too, so I would think that wouldn't happen.) I flew a couple of test flights in Hawaii yesterday (Honolulu to Kona) and the weather at Kona was horrible (rain, tropical storm..... ceiling 800 overcast and heavy rain!) The pauses were all due to the weather re-generation. Maybe if I just download the weather and not have it update so often everything will smooth out. Haven't tried it yet with FS9's downloadable weather.

[peppy197 165]

Creat stuffI did the rename option. Using Win-XPI can now fly with ATC at 100% with confidence that I will not plunge into FS-stutters.I also put Autogen at 100% full right and scenery full right. Using theme weather with building thunderstorms, and getting good rates too.DId not throw the clouds at full 100% yet, will try that later.Took a snap shot of the autogen scenery with and with default.xml and there is so small a difference over LAX on final that you might say it was 5%, noticeable but only that.I did however not attain great fps values, locked at 14 only, was getting 12,5 average on final, better before final, not a great deal as I was only testing the differences. Got 9,5 average using default.xmlP4-2.4/512/XP/128FX5200Allen

[JimmiG 244]

"I wonder if the variety of autogen models is the source of the problem? There sure is a lot of stuff in that xml file that will appear in an urban setting (schools, fire stations, gas stations, strip malls, a variety of resteraunts, hotels, billboards, etc.)."I think that's unlikely for several reasons.The behavior is not normal; First, you get normal FPS, but as you circle over a city, FPS begins to drop. This is an indication that data is accumulating and not being released properly.If MS expected that the variety of Autogen would cause such a slowdon, Microsoft would have put a checkbox in FS2004 display settings, something like "Enable extra autogen objects". Just renaming the xml file does far more to improve my framerate than moving the autogen slide from Extremely Dense to Sparse does.Also, keeping the xml file but doing the other tweak (disable the vector objects feature), also improves framerate a lot. You only get problems when using both vector objects and the objects defined in the xml file at the sime time.

[Guest Mengy]

Sweet lord Jim, this is like a miracle! I just did a test flght over Seattle, departing KRNT and doing patterns around it. I would average from 6-12 fps with most settings maxed, only the scenery density and autogen density were turned down to "dense". I exited and renamed the default.xml then loaded and did the same test, same settings, and averaged from 14-25 fps! At one heading I was getting in the 30's!!! I quickly cranked both density settings to max and still averaged from 13-20 fps, but it was MUCH smoother. Somehow, 13 fps now seems very tolerable, where before it was a stutterfest.I still get very slight stutters but they are far less common and seem to be MUCH shorter in duration, we are talking milliseconds now. Plus my FPS are more in line with an FS2002 on steroids, which was what I expected when I bought it.This is definately a bug, something got screwed by MS here. This needs a sticky!!!!

[rhumbaflappy 113]

Hi all.JimmiG deserves a big "thank you" from many that have had problems with autogen. First class detective work, and a good example of how discussion and experimentation can yield results.I suspected the vector placed objects might cause problems, because the objects are tied to a road or utility easement ( VTP2 lines ) that could be quite long.But I hadn't suspected the XML placed scenery objects as being a problem. The odd thing about those objects is they are apparently tied to a ground tile.Both the XML and Vector objects aren't actually autogen, at least as we know them from FS2002. They are library objects. The older type of autogen are cousins of Advanced Buildings from the FS2000 SDK, but they are hardcoded... not actual library objects, and are found in the AGN files. But, we have little control over the actual appearance of a tree or building... that is very much random, or at least also hardcoded in the sim.This is a very good find for simmers with older systems, and a credit to JimmiG's persistance.I've got a higher-end system, so I'll probably keep the fastfood-bridge thing. ( At least until I foul up a landing due to a slideshow ). Thanks, Jim. :)Dick

[JimmiG 244]

"JimmiG deserves a big "thank you" from many that have had problems with autogen. First class detective work, and a good example of how discussion and experimentation can yield results."Don't give me all the credit, though. I merely experimented with various settings and tried to look for patterns in the slowdowns. It was Kurt who first told me about the two additional kinds of Autogen in FS2004, and how it's defined, and then, through experimentation, I discovered that framerates increased after disabling one of the two new types of Autogen."Both the XML and Vector objects aren't actually autogen, at least as we know them from FS2002. They are library objects. "Yes, and since this type of autogen works differently than normal autogen, it's possible MS simply forgot to define when those objects should be released.There might actually be a problem with normal library objects as well. I think we should try to find out if normal library objects also cause slowdowns. Default FS2004 scenery does not contain enough objects in one place for this to be a problem even if the objects don't get released properly, but as more detailed addon sceneries become available, this could become a problem. We need a scenery area with a silly amount of objects placed. Then, slew around the area to see if the objects are released properly when no longer visible.However, I think it's more likely that the bug only affects the new autogen.A big 'oops' for Microsoft, and quite embarrasing. Hopefully they will fix this. It's not a big deal now that we know of this tweak, but for people who don't frequent Flightsim forums, and will never find out about the tweak, it's a big deal since they will most likely have to disable Autogen alltogetheroI'll try to summarize and then email MS. I did that about a week ago, but back then I didn't know enough to tell them exactly what's going on. It's possible that they looked at it and figured it out but I never got a reply from them.I've also learnt to never buy FS the day it comes out. The first few weeks with FS2004 have been nothing but frustration for me. First, it was the problem with ATI's Radeon drivers causing a flashing black screen and garbled text in FS2004. Next, a problem with autogen trees shimmering and poor performance when using Anisotropic Filtering. Then, when I finally figured that one out, I have to spend another week trying to fix the Autogen problems. Then there's the problem with missing aircraft.cfg parameters causing some FS2002 planes to behave incorrectly in FS2004. AFAIK, add-on aircraft developers are still trying to figure that one out.My first tip for FS2006 - buy it at least one month after it's released.

[Chris Willis 8]

Hi Jimmi, Result are differents on others systems; I did not get noticable major diference with the xml files with those 15 fps drop,I never get those terrible frame rate drop you are talking and either the 2d fps panel drop on default aircraft, or the pause, freez, crash that's others haves..I did not get poor Anisotropic Filtering you are talking, I use 4x or 8x anosotropy with the drivers display with Gforce4 cards 128mb almost same performance, no 3rd party tweaker here running on background.""My first tip for FS2006 - buy it at least one month after it's released.""If all user buy it one month later from the initial release, more the tips will be laters and slower, users will not able to find any tweak and tips in this forum. Frustration will appears one month laters. All Issues are not always replicable on all system, and less noticable issue, it need the entire mass community for finding these located issue with differents type, specialy for lower system 1.5 GHZ and lower, 3d card type , configuration and drivers.Ps: Never use the MIP-Map slider to 6, more than 5 there is frame rate drop nothings and building and trees shimmering, by default use 4. Be sure your AGP FAST WRITE is enable in your BIOS.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs