I recently purchased and installed a complex payware commercial airliner for FS2004. I won't go into details about the aircraft in question as this post relates to any modern FMC programmed commercial aircraft for FS2002/2004.I spent over two hours last night sitting at my PC clicking various buttons as per the instructions in the 93 odd page aircraft manual/tutorial/performance guide. Then I attempted to program the FMC....At 9pm I sat back and thought - What on earth am I doing!I enjoy flying aircraft. That is physically controlling an aircraft through the combined use of brain/eyes/ears/arms/legs. Trying to simulate that wonderful feeling of floating through the air "on a wing and a prayer" admiring the earth below. I spent thousands of pounds and a whole year learning to fly light aircraft in the late 80's and continue to enjoy the privilege when I can afford the time (and cost!).I use FS2002/2004 to simulate (as best it can) the wonder of flight, the discipline and the skill of aircraft control and navigation.I am not a Computer Programmer. I am a Pilot. Don't some of you think we have taken the whole "flight simulator" thing a bit too far? I don't really care whether the "APU" button is the correct colour or whether the top of the autopilot control panel is weathered as in "real-life". All I want is a reasonably accurate flight model, a nice looking realistically proportioned aircraft and some damn fine scenery to float over and admire as I perform a "greaser" (in 15 mph crosswind) at my local airport!Am I in a minority here?!RegardsAdam "Biggles" MooreLondon UK

Sounds like you need a refund. Personally, I like a bit of heavy iron FMCing to go with the VFR "feel the breeze" experience. Whatever lights your fire I guess!Gary

Well I do love to do circuits in "my" TUI Boeing 757 And I can occasionally be seen in one of those superb Meljet aircraftBut for 90% of the time I'll stick with my Real Air SF260 (sexiest aircraft in the world!!!):-) Adamhttp://www.flightpix.tk

This is a Simulation, what we are doing while 'programming the FMC' is simulating real life.

AdamNo you are not in a minority :-)I used to fly the big stuff but as time has gone by I have developed the idea that flight simulation for me should reflect what I might be able to do in real life. I will never have the opportunuty to fly a B747 or A340 but I could have a go at the club aircraft if I wanted to.So now I fly the default Cub in FS9, get out the ICAO map, go low and slow VFR everywhere, enjoy the scenery, have time to think and enjoy myself :-)All of the big iron these days is controlled by computers and I don't see much point in using my computer to simulate another computer, if you get my meaning :-lol But I don't have any complaints about anyone else wanting to do this. After all, this is a simulator and where else would you get such an inexpensive opportunity to have a go at a jumbo or an F16?David

>>But for 90% of the time I'll stick with my Real Air SF260>(sexiest aircraft in the world!!!)>Same here!!!I have quite a "number" of saved flights for the RealAir SF260 within FS2002. These include various crosswind/landings & situations requiring slips to loose altitude quickly. It's STILL the most enjoyment I've got out of flight simulator in all this time! Rudder pedals required! :)L.Adamson

"All of the big iron these days is controlled by computers and I don't see much point in using my computer to simulate another computer"DavidMy thoughts exactly regarding the "big iron" - many of my fellow club members are Captains or FO's with major UK airlines and they don't enjoy the "button pushing" bits of their jobs very much as it takes the enjoyment out of the flying - why else would they spend their weekends at the flying club!I should make it clear that my original post was not a criticism of those who enjoy flying from A - B via an FMC - I was just wondering how many people actually pursue the hobby purely for the visual experience (especially in FS2004) and "wind in the hair" aspect (I suppose a couple of electric fans strategically placed around the PC could help simulate even that;-))AdamPS: SF260 plus my new rudder pedals are a fantastic combination I CAN'T WAIT for the new FS2004 SF260 update!

Hi I would just like to add that as much as i try and find a authentic looking panel, i prefer the external visual effect of the sim. I have tryed to run with FMC's but to be honest, i find them a bit to complicated for myself. So i stick to FSNav doing the flying for me, or lately i use RC 3 which is superb.But to those guys that can use the FMC just like in real life,i take my hat of to them. Shaun

>My thoughts exactly regarding the "big iron" - many of my>fellow club members are Captains or FO's with major UK>airlines and they don't enjoy the "button pushing" bits of>their jobs very much as it takes the enjoyment out of the>flying - why else would they spend their weekends at the>flying club!Same reason we have so many commercial/military pilots in the Experimental Aircraft Association. They like building the aircraft........ or at least the "weekend flying" part of it. I should make note, that the majority of these commercial pilots that I've mentioned have been flying commercially for a long time, or are in/near retirement. Not usually a case of still "working their way up the ladder". L.Adamson

Gents,Itn't it a wonderful world though? There is room for many "likes" and "dislikes" and interests in this hobby. My personal preference, fwiw, is all the detailed flight planning, weather, routing, loading out, then pre-flighting and flying a route, with an A320, 737, 767, or what have you. I like interacting with ATC (RC3) and doing the checklists, etc (with FDC) and in real weather (FS_Meteo) I can manage maybe two 500-1000 trips per week, and have been around the world a few times flying 80,000 plus miles each time and visiting places I would never have imagined.On occasion I have been know to fly all around the perimeter of the US 2-300 miles a leg in the awesome F1 Meridian ,,, but the real reason I love the Meridian is for the Garmin avionics, and small scale flight planning. I also love flying around French Polynesia in the DF Cardinal ... (installed the Garmin 530 there also) ... I know I'll never visit Bora Bora ... but I can fly in any time I want!!!So bottom line here ... I think there is something for everyone, from people who simply like the feel of VFR flying to the people who like all the complexities of big transport type aircraft ... then not to mention the wonderful people who take the time to paint and develop these things ....Actually nice to see a "positive" post here every now and again!!!!!Happy landings!!!

I guess all this will change.When those pilots you mention started their career, the focus in flying was not so much on programming FMCs, bordcomputers and all that stuff. I guess those days "real" flying was a major part for commercial flying (exept for FEs :-) ). All this has changed and the older pilots do not like it very much because it was not the reason, why they had chosen their occupation.Nowadays every youngster who wants to become a commercial pilot knows what expects him. Many of them choose this occupation, just because they are much into computing, digital engeneering etc. They are fascinated by this development. I have recognized this in the flightsim related forums too. The people who are more into the heavy iron stuff seem to be younger than the one who are more into GA or classic a/c.Just my 2 c.Wolfgang

I first wanted to be a pilot at age 7. All I wanted to do was fly - whether it was a 707/727/DC8/DC10/Tiger Moth/Chipmunk it didn't (and still doesn't) matter."Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earthAnd danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirthOf sun-split clouds - and done a hundred thingsYou have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swungHigh in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring thereI've chased the shouting wind along, and flungMy eager craft through footless halls of air.Up, up the long delirious, burning blue,I've topped the windswept heights with easy graceWhere never lark, or even eagle flew -And, while with silent lifting mind I've trodThe high unsurpassed sanctity of space,Put out my hand and touched the face of God."And it still holds true for me today as it always has..Bit off topic now sorry! Feeling all emotional:-)CheersAdam(PS: Poem above by Pilot Officer Gillespie MageeNo 412 squadron, RCAFKilled 11 December 1941)

All of the big iron these days is controlled by computers and I don't see much point in using my computer to simulate another computer, if you get my meaning :-lolI understand your point! :-lol I've just purchased 767 PIC, and I'm about to delve into the FMC World :D I'm 26, and I was brought up in the 1980s computer era. I like computers, but only to an FMC-programming level ... I hate computer programming ... I can't do it! :-boom :-lol I love computer automation and gadgets, but you can't beat a hand flown X-wind approach in 1 mile viz!Whether you're into VFR in a Tiger Moth or leaving doing an autoland in a 747......... flight simming is about having fun :Dhttp://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic.ph.../AAV_banner.jpghttp://www.aavirtual.com :)

Adam...From the responses, you'll see you're not in a minority--that's for certain. But it's great the sim offers room for both "seat of the pants" flying and "program a computer" flying. The FMC's are very critical to today's heavy iron. Older airliners used to have between 3-4 crewmembers--making airline payroll pretty high in the cockpit. Pax demand cheap seats, and cheap seats means less workforce and less workload in the cockpit. Therefore, an aircraft with an FMC gives a more realistic feeling of today's heavy iron than an aircraft without.I tend to prefer older, lighter aircraft. I use the autopilot during climbout and cruise, but I usually hand fly the last 30 miles to my destination. When Microlighting, I just don't use the Autopilot at all. With the advent of FS9, I'm in Microlight heaven :)-John

Same here! I spent a good portion of my first few months with FS9 flying the big iron, but lately, I've been enjoying simply cruising down the west coast of the US in my SF.260 enjoying the scenery and awesome framerates that you get away from big airports and lots of traffic. I've flow about 4 legs in my trip now, from Seattle, to Portland, to Bend OR, to Florence OR, to Willows CA. Figure I'll probably hang a left soon and take myself over to Tahoe then out over the Rockies. Fun stuff :)Nate