Would anyone who has the manuals like to confirm whether or not they include all the required performance information to calculate derated / reduced thrust take offs?This data was of course missing from the MD-11 manuals and I seem to recall it being said that it would be available for the NGX. Do the manuals contain tables for take off speeds at different weights? and more importantly do they contain the information to calculate your own performance for assumed temperature reduced thrust take offs?I imagine this info, if there, will be in the FCOM Vol. 1 or the QRH. With the coorperation from Boeing this time, it would be great to have this. As an aside, AFAIK the NG FMC doesn't calculate V speeds for you, the speeds are still looked up on a speeds booklet and entered manually. Can anyone (Ryan) say how this will be catered for in the NGX? Is there a J41 style animated speeds book in the VC? I hope so.Cheers,Adam.

Would anyone who has the manuals like to confirm whether or not they include all the required performance information to calculate derated / reduced thrust take offs?This data was of course missing from the MD-11 manuals and I seem to recall it being said that it would be available for the NGX. Do the manuals contain tables for take off speeds at different weights? and more importantly do they contain the information to calculate your own performance for assumed temperature reduced thrust take offs?I imagine this info, if there, will be in the FCOM Vol. 1 or the QRH. With the coorperation from Boeing this time, it would be great to have this. As an aside, AFAIK the NG FMC doesn't calculate V speeds for you, the speeds are still looked up on a speeds booklet and entered manually. Can anyone (Ryan) say how this will be catered for in the NGX? Is there a J41 style animated speeds book in the VC? I hope so.Cheers,Adam.

No - tables are runway specific, thus created by the airlines not Boeing. Whilst there is some information to help, I would suggest you get a copy of TOPCAT. Its brilliant, calculates for any runway, and you could print tables also if required. A superb addon!!!

Hello I can connfirm you that there is the tables for each of the models 600/700/800/900/900ERW there is the Assumed température reduced thrust as well as one or several associated with a derate.

Agreed, TOPCAT is probably something you want to get hold of. Unfortunately, TOPCAT would only give you data for an 800 Series NG, but having said that, even with that limitation it is worth having if you want to do a realistic simulation of reduced thrust take offs. It would probably get pretty close for all the other NGs too, apart from the 600 Series of course.Al

Yep, I realise that the tables are runway specific in real life but I'm sure generic tables could be useful. Level-D produced some very good ones for their 767.

Boeing was much more accommodating for this vs. how it was with the MD-11 - the printed manuals contain performance tables as will the PDF ones that come with the plane.

Boeing was much more accommodating for this vs. how it was with the MD-11 - the printed manuals contain performance tables as will the PDF ones that come with the plane.

THE MANUALS HAVE PERFORMANCE CHARTS!!!!!!!!! YAHHH.....hey you guys told me awhile back that we wouldnt be able to get them?Ron Hamilton

No - tables are runway specific, thus created by the airlines not Boeing. Whilst there is some information to help, I would suggest you get a copy of TOPCAT. Its brilliant, calculates for any runway, and you could print tables also if required. A superb addon!!!

I agree about TOPCAT being a great app, but that is not true about the performance charts in the manuals we're selling. The takeoff and landing performance charts have runway lengths in there - these are the exact charts the airlines base their performance calculations from. They may modify them slightly for specific operational purposes, but these charts absolutely are the starting point for what they do. The performance data is literally most of the FCOM Vol 1 and covers all phases of flight. (it's 775 pages of data by my count here)

I agree about TOPCAT being a great app, but that is not true about the performance charts in the manuals we're selling. The takeoff and landing performance charts have runway lengths in there - these are the exact charts the airlines base their performance calculations from. They may modify them slightly for specific operational purposes, but these charts absolutely are the starting point for what they do. The performance data is literally most of the FCOM Vol 1 and covers all phases of flight. (it's 775 pages of data by my count here)

Yeh ok - i get that. Sorry. I know the performance details are all in the FCOMs, I was being a bit pedantic and talking of the specific type of runway tables which are specific to each runway. LDS did do some generic ones with their 767, and I was merely pointing out (albeit not very well) that I didnt think they were included in FCOMs. Anyways.... im looking forward to immersing myself in the manuals when they arrive!!!By way of example (i think i am aloud to post this here???), this is the kind of output from TOPCAT, and what I believe was being requested (sorry - formatting goes all screwy):************************************************************************************* KDEN 08 * FLAPS 10 * TO2 * DENVER INTERNATIONAL *************************************************************************************: ELEVATION = 5351 (FT) : B747-400/PW4056 : :: SLOPE = -0.50 (% ) : DATED 12 DEC 2010 19:36 UTC : ALL WEIGHTS IN :: T.O.R.A. = 3658 (M ) : : KILOGRAMS (KG) :: T.O.D.A. = 3963 (M ) : AIR COND ON : :: A.S.D.A. = 3658 (M ) : ANTI ICE ON OR OFF : NOT FOR :: LENGTH = 3658 (M ) : RUNWAY COND DRY : OPERATIONAL USE :: WIDTH = 46 (M ) : QNH 1013.25 HPA : ::---------------------------:-------------------------------:----------------------:: ENGINE OUT DEPARTURE (EOSID): :: LT TO 'PHLAT' [7 DME R 035 'DVV' 114.7] (035 INBD,RT) ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: TEMP : WIND COMP : WIND COMP : WIND COMP : WIND COMP : WIND COMP :: °C : -15 KTS : +0 KTS : +10 KTS : +20 KTS : +30 KTS ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: -10 : 287054 FIELD : 298870 CLIMB : 298870 CLIMB : 298870 CLIMB : 298870 CLIMB :: : 135 150 160 : 145 154 163 : 146 154 163 : 147 154 163 : 147 154 163 ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: +0 : 282333 FIELD : 298870 CLIMB : 298870 CLIMB : 298870 CLIMB : 298870 CLIMB :: : 134 148 158 : 145 154 163 : 146 154 163 : 147 154 163 : 147 154 163 ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: +10 : 277610 FIELD : 298870 CLIMB : 298870 CLIMB : 298870 CLIMB : 298870 CLIMB :: : 132 147 157 : 145 154 163 : 146 154 163 : 147 154 163 : 147 154 163 ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: +20 : 272124 FIELD : 294461 CLIMB : 294461 CLIMB : 294461 CLIMB : 294461 CLIMB :: : 128 144 155 : 142 152 162 : 143 152 162 : 144 152 162 : 144 152 162 ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: +30 : 266363 FIELD : 286458 CLIMB : 286458 CLIMB : 286458 CLIMB : 286458 CLIMB :: : 128 144 153 : 141 150 159 : 142 150 159 : 143 150 159 : 143 150 159 ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: +40 : 245357 FIELD : 264846 CLIMB : 264846 CLIMB : 264846 CLIMB : 264846 CLIMB :: : 123 139 147 : 137 146 153 : 138 146 153 : 139 146 153 : 140 146 153 ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: +50* : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH :: : : : : : ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: +60* : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH :: : : : : : ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: +62* : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH :: : : : : : ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: +64* : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH : NOT AUTH :: : : : : : ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: * = EXCEEDS RWY ENV TEMP LIMIT : RWY ENV TEMP LIMIT = +44°C :: : RWY &@($* TEMP LIMIT = +64°C ::--PRESSURE CORRECTION-:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------::+1 HPA : +220 KG : +267 KG : +267 KG : +267 KG : +267 KG ::-1 HPA : -380 KG : -323 KG : -323 KG : -323 KG : -323 KG ::-------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:--------------:: MAX BRAKE RELEASE WEIGHT MUST NOT EXCEED MAX CERT TAKEOFF WEIGHT OF 394625 KG ::----------------------------------------------------------------------------------: TOPCAT 2.68 - WWW.TOPCATSIM.COM

I agree about TOPCAT being a great app, but that is not true about the performance charts in the manuals we're selling. The takeoff and landing performance charts have runway lengths in there - these are the exact charts the airlines base their performance calculations from. They may modify them slightly for specific operational purposes, but these charts absolutely are the starting point for what they do. The performance data is literally most of the FCOM Vol 1 and covers all phases of flight. (it's 775 pages of data by my count here)

That's great, just what I was hoping to hear. The manual set is now getting very hard to resist! TOPCAT is useful but it's just another add on to buy on top of the manuals, the NGX itself, REX 2.0 and a new PC to play it all on... I'm supposed to be saving for my ME/IR...

Rob,I have Topcat, so yeah I know what you're talking about. I'm saying that the data from Boeing is the actual root source of the takeoff data you see on airline dispatch charts like what Topcat produces.

Rob,I have Topcat, so yeah I know what you're talking about. I'm saying that the data from Boeing is the actual root source of the takeoff data you see on airline dispatch charts like what Topcat produces.

Highlighting my laziness for not working it all out for myself i fear? :)Will definately immerse myself in this little challenge when the manuals arrive.