Emergencey decent procedure?

[Eaglejock10 0]

Hello, Whenever there's a real life emergencey in my country, I try to re-create that event in FSX. This time, a flight from Umeå in the north of Sweden to Gothenburg in the south lost cabin presure at an altitude of aprox 33,000 ft. The crew made an succesful emergencey decent from 33,000 ft to 10,000 ft in about 2 min and 30 seconds. I have tried to re-create this in FSX with the PMDG MD-11 but have not managed to get within the 2 mins and 30 seconds limit. So my question is; what's the standard procedure when loosing cabin pressure at that altitude, how do I manage to get the aircraft to 10,000 ft or below before the passengers black out?Thanks for any advise. Best regardsJohan H

[MrPlaneDriver 41]

The standard is to request immediate descent, descend at your discretion to 10,000 ft, sqwank (change the transponder number to) 7700 (emergency code) and declare an emergency. Whenever there is a depressurization, oxygen masks fall from the roof. In a 737, that oxygen lasts for 12 minutes, so you have less than 12 minutes to descend. Pilots are trained for this, but there isn't an "immediate checklist" for this kind of situation.Regards,

[Olympic260 415]

Actyally there is a Emergency Descent Checklist on the QRH.At least at the QRH of a B734 I have page 2.6To summarise the ChecklistEngine Start witches CONTThrust Levers CLOSESPEED BRAKE FLIGHT DETENDDESCENT INITIATETARGET SPEED Mmo/VmoLEVEL OFF ALTITUDE LOWEST SAFE ALTITUDE OR 10000FTAnd also present on the PMDG MD11 QRH Manual page 20.7Christos

[masneoquil 66]

Actyally there is a Emergency Descent Checklist on the QRH.At least at the QRH of a B734 I have page 2.6To summarise the ChecklistEngine Start witches CONTThrust Levers CLOSESPEED BRAKE FLIGHT DETENDDESCENT INITIATETARGET SPEED Mmo/VmoLEVEL OFF ALTITUDE LOWEST SAFE ALTITUDE OR 10000FTAnd also present on the PMDG MD11 QRH Manual page 20.7Christos

This with Autopilot ON??

[MrPlaneDriver 41]

EDIT: Disregard

[KCA9304 0]

This with Autopilot ON??

MD-11:Yes, Autopilot ONPassenger oxygen supply is oke for at least 15 mins.Regards,Harry

[Thomas_Kenobi 0]

The author of Ask the Pilot blog has described the procedure in one of his posts. I don't know what type he was flying at the time, but the autopilot remained on.http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2010/11/08/when_planes_depressurize

[Eaglejock10 0]

This is interesting, thanks for the replies!I thought there wasa "rule" that you should decend to 10,000 ft or below in less than 2,5 mins, thought I read it somewhere. I need to read through the QRH for the MD11.. :) Btw, is it not fantastic that we have such advanced and high fidelity addons like the PMDG MD11 to re-create real world emergencies on?!BrJohan

[fencer 16]

The standard is to request immediate descent, .../...Regards,

I think that, rather than "requesting" a immediate descent, the crew will broadcast a "mayday" message and initiate descent immediately. Btw, I believe "mayday" is used whenever a plane can't maintain its assigned altitude, to let everybody else know that there is a problem.Rgds,Bruno

[Thomas_Kenobi 0]

I think that, rather than "requesting" a immediate descent, the crew will broadcast a "mayday" message and initiate descent immediately. Btw, I believe "mayday" is used whenever a plane can't maintain its assigned altitude, to let everybody else know that there is a problem.Rgds,Bruno

Aviate, Navigate, CommunicateThe crew will fly the plane first and communicate with control last.About the mayday, I don't think that is accurate. The crew is required to inform ATC of altitude change or flight plan deviations after they've taken any urgent steps, but not to transmit a Mayday call. That will depend on the issue they are having.e.g. If they begin a descent due to a RA by TCAS, they will transmit: "TCAS Descent", not Mayday.

[Olympic260 415]

If you can not notify ATC immidiatelly for the descent if I remeber correctly you also turn the HDG 15 degrees to the right or left, in this way you are exiting the airway and minimize any possibilities of problems with traffic below until ATC is notifed.On B734 LevelD sim session I had with a friend pilot we performed an emergency descent.Basically when decompression happened, Engine to CONT,A/T disconnect, and throttles IDLEYou slam on the ALT wheel to get a lower Altitude depending on FL you areSpeed select at barber poleLVL CHGand also speedbrake extend.This way you descent qucily enough :)Definately not something I like to go through as a passenger :)Christos

[scandinavian13 5,192]

The declaration of an emergency is entirely up to the captain, or as required by SOP (but most I've seen defer again to the captain).To be honest, the ATC side of me would prefer not to hear anything until you have a clear picture of what you want to do. To better explain that, I don't want to play twenty questions with you. I want you to react, make the best possible decision and go. If you have time to throw in a "[Callsign], emergency decent." That's all I want to hear. I'll make sure there's nothing for you to hit on the way down. After you have everything under control, come back with your information and decision making: what happened, what you did, where you want to go and whether or not you're actually declaring an emergency. From there, we can work to get you where you need to go. Essentially, I want the communication to be very effective - concise, clear and to the point. There's no sense in distracting yourself from doing what you need to do by trying to hash the problem out on the frequency while you're in the process of reacting to it.The pilot side of me is always evaluating what exactly determines an emergency. Keep in mind that, with some fudging of the legal jargon, you have three states: normal, urgent and emergency. My evaluation of each of those states is as follows. Normal I will omit, as it doesn't pertain to this discussion of non-standard operations. Urgent situations are those that require attention but do not need immediate action. In other terms, nothing drastic will happen at this particular moment but might in the future - nothing presents immediate danger to the flight. Emergency situations are those that require immediate attention. In other terms, this situation presents immediate danger to the flight.My issue is that on the pilot side you're taught to assume the worst and make sure you do everything possible to ensure as much safety as possible. I also contend with the thought that one should not overreact. In the case of decompression, if it was explosive decompression and there is now structural damage, you can bet I am going to declare an emergency. That structural weakness can become a larger issue at any moment, so I want to be on the ground as soon as possible. If it was some other oddity, like the outflow valves somehow getting commanded to fully open and we were still slightly pressurized, but not to an acceptable level, I'd begin a descent, state my problem and depending on my location determine the appropriate landing facility (if I'm near approach anyway, why divert?). Is there reason to declare an emergency? You can make a case for it, but I would argue no. There is an equipment malfunction that, while unfortunate, poses no immediate or future threat to the safety of the flight. The threat was mitigated by the descent, and my current issue is a higher fuel burn at the lower altitude. Unless I'm pressing my fuel to get to a suitable airport, to me, there's no reason to declare an emergency. Keep in mind, that you may still be asked to submit a report explaining the situation, even though you didn't declare an emergency or even urgency situation.I guess my main point here, is that you should err on the side of caution, it does not necessarily mean that you immediately need to declare an emergency. As pointed out earlier: aviate, navigate, communicate. Communicate being the last one there, take care of what you need to, assess the situation, and then communicate it. I'm not going to fault you for taking the precaution and declaring an emergency right then and there, but keep in mind that a well-informed decision is often a better one for all involved.[/RANT]

[Guest wims]

...Btw, is it not fantastic that we have such advanced and high fidelity addons like the PMDG MD11 to re-create real world emergencies on?!BrJohan

Its a great plane, no doubt, but its kinda bad taste to recreate emergencies in my opinion, especially the ones where people were hurt

[FACA 0]

Its a great plane, no doubt, but its kinda bad taste to recreate emergencies in my opinion, especially the ones where people were hurt

I think it´s a great way to learn about and help pilots to know how to avoid possible new emergencies. After almost every accident, pilots try to recreate them on level D simulators trying to understand how they could save the plane.

[bkisc 0]

so 23,000 altitude loss in 2min 30sec = 9200 feet per min, pretty easy on a 737, don't forget the speed brake lever, can't say much about MD-11, it depends on aerodynamics though. You can try taking Landing Gear down on the MD-11 as well, not a standard procedure but perfectly okay for the airframe limits.I would guess, the first thing to do is to get the plane on its way down safely and ASAP, second - check for traffic, close ones are on display on the screens or TCAS, then clear the route, and last - shout on 121.5 or inform the controller. At 10000' open the windows and let your sweat evaporate :)Best,B h a s k a r - K r i s h n a