Hi all. I have been looking through past threads and am interested in setting up for an early IAP so that i can descend via my flight plan in my fmc and follow the star as loaded into my fmc rather than 40m out when most of my descent is over with as dictated by ATC. I read a post by 'RONZIE' that mensioned doing this by changing notams in RC4 set-up options. Being still new to simming i'd appreciate some info on how to do this (In simple terms for a nubie please) and if ronzie happens to read this, i would be interested from you about this.T.A.L.

Hi all. I have been looking through past threads and am interested in setting up for an early IAP so that i can descend via my flight plan in my fmc and follow the star as loaded into my fmc rather than 40m out when most of my descent is over with as dictated by ATC. I read a post by 'RONZIE' that mensioned doing this by changing notams in RC4 set-up options. Being still new to simming i'd appreciate some info on how to do this (In simple terms for a nubie please) and if ronzie happens to read this, i would be interested from you about this.T.A.L.

have you read the manual's section on iap approaches, and read and flown the tutorials?www.jdtllc.com/v4/rcv43.pdfpages 56-57, 126tutorials 7 and 8notams have nothing to do with iap approaches.

Thanks for your reply JD. Yes i have read these pages. However they do not tell me how to get around or adjust the distance out before the AIP option becomes available. As i said, i have read in a previous post that you can do this by using the 'Notams' option in RC set-up. i.e. further out than 40m. and before your descent so that i can descend via the fp in the FMC using vnav right through to final approach and landing clearance from atc(rc). Having said all that i am a nube and cannot figure out how to manipulate (If thats the right word) the Notams and or any other options within RC to achieve this.T.O.L.

Rick,Selecting NOTAMS makes no difference apart from being instructed to descend if it is safe to do so. Neither can the 40 miles limit be changed.If you want to fly your own approach then the only way it can currently be done is to request an IAP after contacting APP 40 miles out. It's almost impossible to avoid being given a heading and altitude instruction by the controller but just ack it and then request an IAP. After selecting the ILS option and your chosen runway RC will clear you down to the approach altitude and issue the QNH. Thereafter, you're free to fly the approach as you wish.The whole process takes less than 30 secs so your STAR approach won't be too badly affected.

Thanks Ray. I will give it a try.

To follow a STAR its waypoints must be included in the flight plan sent to RC. A few planners have this option on export and can expand terminal data into individual waypoints. If you wish to use the STAR in the FMC database then it must be in sync with the flight planner database. As an example I use a PMDG 737NG and FSBuild 2.4 planner, both now which use navigraph.com subscription Navigraph AIRAC data for the FMC and planner. A Navigraph subscription allows as many data formats as you wish to download with only a single charge for the period.Another alternative is to export the planner data into both FS and the FMC (if allowed and the planner supports the FMC format) and not use the terminal database in the FMC. If the STAR only gets specific to a runway about 35 nm from destination you can choose a STAR for the expected runway when preparing your flight plan for RC but request the IAP to the RC suggested runway (which includes AI pattern observation) from RC after acknowledging the RC assigned runway and then using your FMC to navigate to the assigned runway final approach on your own without vectors or RC monitoring. NOTAMS will let you deviate from ATC vectoring assigned altitudes.NOTAMS for departure and arrival is available on the Controller Page after your flight plan is loaded into RC.If you have FSBuild 2.3 or Navigraph updatable 2.4 (not in final release) then these hints of not obvious features may assist. (Once you install 2.3 there is an upgrade link on the fsbuild forum.) Adapt these hints for the flight planner of your choice:-------------------FSB tips:1. Include this line in FSbuild.cfg:NAVCHKDUPDIST=100This decreases the chance of using the wrong duplicate named local (to the airport) waypiont from a nearby airport. Local waypoint names are not exclusive. It decreases the database search when it is named in the route to within a 100 nm radius of your airport. You will find these in terminal procedures such as "D" number something within a SID or STAR to define a merge or turning point.2. When doing a Auto Generate (Route) be sure the SR (Stored Route) button next to it is "up" that is not highlighted. Auto Generate will use a stored route if found by default and most are out of date with old waypoints and terminal procedures. Having Stored Routes off forces it to search a path with fresh data. (Now off by default in version 2.4.)**REVISED 12/31/10** 3. Starting soon in 2011 FS Build database updates will be exclusively released through navigraph.com. It should be part of the FMC data line. For those not familiar with Navigraph each subscription term (cycle) includes multiple format downloads at no additional cost. This is very convenient for aligning FMC/navigation equipment databases with the flightplanner so among other things ATC data and your nav equipment data should match as you send a plan to ATC and then load it including terminal procedures into your FMC. The 2.4 upgrade includes the thirteenth cycle of 2010.4. Where an airport uses specific runways for different terminal procedures select the runway using an estimate based on weather and if the runway fits your aircraft requirements before doing the Auto Generate. This helps select the correct SID and STAR for the runway and direction of departure and arrival.5. After the Auto Generate and/or first build look at the map created to spot any obvious errors. In the route grid look for any sudden non-sensible changes in direction or extremely long legs not in the correct direction creating a zig-zag in the map. (See item 6 following to correct).6. Be aware there is an option you can set for each session titled "Build Route from Grid Table". It does not stick between sessions. This lets you build from an edited route grid that you may have modified without recreating the table with the same error on your next build/export. For example you might wish to drop an errant waypoint when proofing the map and rebuilding.7. Sometimes the name of a procedure (SID/STAR) does not match the name exactly in a published route and the procedure will not expand into its plan waypoints in the grid table. You can click on the arrow in the SID/STAR box to see what close name is in the FSB database. (Another reason to keep up with AIRACS.) For example KMSP has a current real such as this one:http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KMSP/DP/WAUKON+TWObut the FSB database only has UKN2. (It does have UKN3 now with the latest available AIRAC update). If so in the route line just change UKN3 to UKN2 so it will expand. Here's a real route from flightaware.com for KMSP to KMDW:KMSP UKN3 DBQ CVA MOTIF3 KMDWthat can be pasted into the FSB route line. If UKN3 or MOTIF3 does not expand in the route grid to individual way points look in the upper part of FSB in the airport section dropping down the SID or STAR box to get the available version and substitute that label in the route line and rebuild. Note that the SID and STAR dropdowns may follow the chosen runway in certain areas.8. Sometimes it takes a second build to get the map to move and/or magnify. The mouse scroll wheel lets you magnify. Just click on the portion of the map you want to center on and scroll to magnify.9. If you click on a line in the route grid table to highlight it, the waypoint on the map will turn red. This is useful for finding errant waypoints that cause an error in the path. That line can then be edited or deleted and a rebuild accomplished with the build option to build from the route grid table.10. If you are running a weather program such as active sky, first build the route in FSB exporting to FS9 using an anticipated cruise altitude and specify the nearest aircraft profile. In AS get the weather you wish to use. (I always get the weather for the zulu time of the departure in FS since time of day affects weather characteristics). Import the plan into AS via the new route button, check the altitude and choose an appropriate true airspeed in knots (this is your no wind ground speed). Process the route. When it is finished click the button to print a hard copy of all. Use this AS navlog for METAR data at both ends and winds aloft and temperature aloft that can be used for FMC data. (You'll also get your estimated average wind at your specified altitude - handy for FMC data.) Leave AS running. Now go back to FSB and your chosen aircraft profile. Enter the surface temperature from your departure METAR, then estimated total taxi time, hold time, and extra time (sometimes called discretionary fuel). Now turn on again your FS9 export along with any FMC export you might use. Rebuild and you'll see the messages regarding the export completion. On the route selection on the left which brings up your route window select the navlog tab and click the .pdf to save the navlog in a file or the print button to get a hard copy so you can easily reference the estimated fuel and other data. This estimated fuel has now taken into account your winds aloft data - no need to enter it in FSB. Now that you have the hard copy and exported your route, you can first optionally save the plan by selecting flightplan window, then clicking the category tab, then select user category. Now click file, save from the menu bar. The name you might want to embellish. Click Save Route To User Flight Plans. For another session, you can recall this working plan and just build.11. If you are using an aircraft with nav equipment that has its own terminal data procedures in its nav equipment (think FMC) you might wish to use step 6 above to take out the waypoints of the terminal procedures keeping just the transition points and build and export with just them. This easily in most cases lets you select the SID and STAR assigned by ATC on your nav equipment by providing a clean legs list in your nav equipment. If you need ATC to monitor the waypoints of the terminal procedure than just export all. To keep ATC and you nav equipment in sync, you might consider importing the full plan into your nav equipment and not using your nav equipment procedure database.This is kind of long but through experience I've described some tricks I've used watching out for any pitfalls.Be sure to check the FSBuild forum for updates.----------------

Thanks for your great detailed reply. I will print and sit and read a few dozen times to really absorb. What i didn't mension in my original post is that i am flying the PMDG 747-400X (Patiently waiting for the PMDG737NGX) with FSB2.4 as my flight planner and both are updated with AIRAC cycle 1102. I have also just purchased Fscrew2 for PMDG747X so being as i mensioned originally, a nube i am into a steep learning curve here. So glad to have people like yourself and others on this forum to level that curve out a bit. Once again many thanks and sorry if i miss-quoted you a bit in on the 'Notams' thing in my original post.

Thanks for your reply JD. Yes i have read these pages. However they do not tell me how to get around or adjust the distance out before the AIP option becomes available. As i said, i have read in a previous post that you can do this by using the 'Notams' option in RC set-up. i.e. further out than 40m. and before your descent so that i can descend via the fp in the FMC using vnav right through to final approach and landing clearance from atc(rc). Having said all that i am a nube and cannot figure out how to manipulate (If thats the right word) the Notams and or any other options within RC to achieve this.T.O.L.

i think the critical misconception, which most people have to work through, is the fmc is not driving to touchdown. it is a tool to comply with atc instructions. you can't change the 40 miles radius - that is where approach takes over from center. center's job is to get you to the 40 mile radius, at an altitude approach will take you. iow, your crossing restriction. if you miss it, approach says nope, not today, you get turned 90 degrees left or right, until you reach that crossing restriction altitude (which is probably a FL in europe - to further confuse us yanks). then approach takes you in.the fmc is your tool, to manage that crossing restriction. ron and ray have written extensively in posts here on how to use the fmc, as a tool, to manage those crossing restrictions.then there is the initial descent point. the fmc wants to be efficient, keeping you as high as possible for as long as possible. center controllers have other priorities, plane efficiency probably ranks below safety, juggling all the other approaches - which involves sequencing you into the big scheme of things. that may not be exactly what the fmc has in mind.so you will probably be descended earlier than your fmc says. if you are flying the plane (not rc copilot on comms), you can ask for that descent at pilot's discretion. then the onus is on you to guarantee you will make the crossing restriction. try it sometime, see how you do. otherwise, when rc controller starts you down, start your descent. i've flown hundreds maybe thousand and change descents. if i start down when i'm told, i've never missed a crossing restriction. your mileage may vary. outside the US, make sure you understand transition altitudes and transition levels. understand the difference between a crossing restriction of FL120 and 12,000. understand where and when you dial in the local pressure, and when to stay on the standard pressure.the critical thing to know about notams, is it's there for one thing. terrain. if you are flying into an airport, surrounded by mountains on 3 sides, you must check notams. otherwise rc doesn't know, will clear you to 8000, the mountain is 10,000 - and you either fly into the mountain, or ignore the clearance, and are berated by the controller. neither is a pretty sight. if you check notams, programatically, it's an easy if statement. if notams - no altitude watchdog. and the clearance changes to "...when feasible, descend to 8000 ft..." the when feasible is your get out of jail card.i know the tutorials aren't sexy. but they are designed, narrated, and documented to cement what you've learned into your being. you can read something 4 times. but flying it once (and saving the flight, so you can refly it as many times as it takes) brings it all home.jd

Thanks for the advice & info JD. You can be sure i will take to heart. Actually i find the FMC more intimidating than Radar Contact. I think once i get that part right and find out where i went wrong when i get a 'Invalid' reply to my scatch pad entry from time to time, i will be getting somewhere. Then maybe i will be better equiped to handle ATC instructions i don't want to here.

I'll add some advice on FMC use:1. Learn how to do a 'direct-to' to skip a waypoint and/or go from your present position to the next waypoint. This is all done on the legs page.2. On Boeing typical FMCs if you have been navigating on your own but want to proceed to the waypoint shown direct which modifies your plan simply click the top left LSK to put it in the scratchpad and then click it again. EXE the change and you are ready for LNAV/VNAV once more.3. To skip a waypoint first LSK on the next waypoint you wish to go to scrolling if necessary to put it in the scratch pad. Then scroll back to the first page and LSK the top waypoint and activate it. Your desired waypoint will appear at the top.When editing the LEGs page for an immediate change use the MCP to guide your aircraft. Turn the aircraft with HDG until it agrees with the heading on the MCP and then engage HNAV.4. Want to put in a 40 nm range ring from destination to estimate your crossing restriction? Go to the FIX page ind put in the destination ICAO in the scratch pad followed by a slash followed by '40' as "KMSP/40". LSK the fix position on the display.5. When taking vectors use the MCP with HDG, ALT CHG, and SPEED and VSPD to respond to ATC commands. It's quick. Don't ack the command to RC until you have made the changes. This prevents RC from getting impatient but be forewarned that if your progress a waypoint before you ack a command RC will not credit that waypoint and turn you back. If not already done on your FMC choose DEP/ARR and from the right side choose the approach (not STAR on the left) such as ILS30. This will present on your ND the final approach line incuding extended runway center line to give you situational awareness as you are being vectored around the pattern.If RC states resume your own nav that means you go to the waypoint in the RC window directly from your present position. That's covered in numbers 1, 2, and 3 above.6. If you go past a waypoint without getting RC credit to avoid getting turned back in the RC extended menu (9) choose direct-to and you'll be presented with a waypoint list. Choose the one you are navigating to.Remember that flying the aircraft according to ATC commands is paramount. Don't hesitate to disengage HNAV and VNAV and use the MCP to comply. I make it a point to keep the MCP parameters up to date matching the LEGS display top waypoint in case I have to switch to it.

Do reallife pilots have the option to request a different waypoint that was not in their flightplan ? If so, would that be an option to put into RC v5?

I'll add some advice on FMC use:1. Learn how to do a 'direct-to' to skip a waypoint and/or go from your present position to the next waypoint. This is all done on the legs page.2. On Boeing typical FMCs if you have been navigating on your own but want to proceed to the waypoint shown direct which modifies your plan simply click the top left LSK to put it in the scratchpad and then click it again. EXE the change and you are ready for LNAV/VNAV once more.3. To skip a waypoint first LSK on the next waypoint you wish to go to scrolling if necessary to put it in the scratch pad. Then scroll back to the first page and LSK the top waypoint and activate it. Your desired waypoint will appear at the top.When editing the LEGs page for an immediate change use the MCP to guide your aircraft. Turn the aircraft with HDG until it agrees with the heading on the MCP and then engage HNAV.4. Want to put in a 40 nm range ring from destination to estimate your crossing restriction? Go to the FIX page ind put in the destination ICAO in the scratch pad followed by a slash followed by '40' as "KMSP/40". LSK the fix position on the display.5. When taking vectors use the MCP with HDG, ALT CHG, and SPEED and VSPD to respond to ATC commands. It's quick. Don't ack the command to RC until you have made the changes. This prevents RC from getting impatient but be forewarned that if your progress a waypoint before you ack a command RC will not credit that waypoint and turn you back. If not already done on your FMC choose DEP/ARR and from the right side choose the approach (not STAR on the left) such as ILS30. This will present on your ND the final approach line incuding extended runway center line to give you situational awareness as you are being vectored around the pattern.If RC states resume your own nav that means you go to the waypoint in the RC window directly from your present position. That's covered in numbers 1, 2, and 3 above.6. If you go past a waypoint without getting RC credit to avoid getting turned back in the RC extended menu (9) choose direct-to and you'll be presented with a waypoint list. Choose the one you are navigating to.Remember that flying the aircraft according to ATC commands is paramount. Don't hesitate to disengage HNAV and VNAV and use the MCP to comply. I make it a point to keep the MCP parameters up to date matching the LEGS display top waypoint in case I have to switch to it.

Thanks a lot ronzie. Can't believe how much great info i've got from one small question. Once again thanks guys.

Do reallife pilots have the option to request a different waypoint that was not in their flightplan ? If so, would that be an option to put into RC v5?

I very much doubt it Eric. That could create all sorts of problems enroute.They can request deviations for weather and turbulence but that is available in v4. Otheriwise they're expected to "fly what they file".

Do reallife pilots have the option to request a different waypoint that was not in their flightplan ? If so, would that be an option to put into RC v5?

that would also be problematic for rc, inputting a new waypoint not in the flight plan might take a dozen or more menu selections.jd