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MrGreen

What RAM to buy

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Hi! I've been on the fence to upgrading my pretty new i7 rig for a while, mostly because im such a geek :D I'm still not 100% on upgrading as my current comp is handling fsx pretty good. But lets say I were to upgrade...I'm looking at a i5 2500K and an Asus P8P67 Deluxe B3, both seem to be handling the FSXMARK11 pretty fantastic. Right now I have 3x2GB Mushkin Redline RAM at 1600 6-8-6-24, which I am very satisified with; but if I were to go Sandy Bridge, would 3 sticks work? Or would I have to drop one stick and in that case would 4GB be sufficient for flying complex demanding planes like the PMDG 747X/MD11 in FSX on win7 64? If no on both accounts, what is your advice to me? Should I buy a 2x4GB kit? I've been looking at mushkins Dual Kits and I haven't been able to find any with a low timing, most are CL8-9. I've been taught that timings were important to the stability and smoothness of FSX, is this still true with SB?Thanks in advance

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You can´t use your 3x2 GB sticks. You´ll have to buy new ones cause SB is Dual Channel and what you currently have is Tripple Channel. The best would be to get 2x2 GB and check whether they fit your demand. If not, you can get another pair, too.

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Timings still rule.I have said before I would have only bought 4GB RAM but they only had 8GB available. However in retrospect and to remove all doubt and debate, I would recommend 8GB. 4GB would work fine for FSX alone but there are games and applications that do benefit from more than 4GB, and neither you nor I want to lose sleep wondering if my 4GB is holding me back.I would do it this way, you only ideally want to run two-sticks. If I was tight on cash I would run with my existing. If I had the money I would upgrade.I am not brand dedicated, Mushkin are great, Gskill are great, Corsair, Crucial. Patriot e.t.c. name brand is important. I look for timing and speed. These are fine if you have to have Mushkin http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226178 but I prefer these http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231431

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Guest jahman
You can´t use your 3x2 GB sticks. You´ll have to buy new ones cause SB is Dual Channel and what you currently have is Tripple Channel. The best would be to get 2x2 GB and check whether they fit your demand. If not, you can get another pair, too.
That's incorrect: The RAM sticks are identical. The only dfference between double channel and triple channel is the memory kits are sold with either 2 or 3 memory sticks, respectively, per kit.Cheers,- jahman.

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That's incorrect: The RAM sticks are identical. The only dfference between double channel and triple channel is the memory kits are sold with either 2 or 3 memory sticks, respectively, per kit.Cheers,- jahman.
Thanks for that. It´s allways good to lean a bit! :smile:

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That's incorrect: The RAM sticks are identical. The only dfference between double channel and triple channel is the memory kits are sold with either 2 or 3 memory sticks, respectively, per kit.Cheers,- jahman.
That's for sure...you could go with four of your Mushkin, except they don't make them anymore. SpiritFlyer uses four in his rig. Maybe some kind soul is willing to trade four of his dual channel for your triple channel set... :rolleyes:

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You can´t use your 3x2 GB sticks. You´ll have to buy new ones cause SB is Dual Channel and what you currently have is Tripple Channel. The best would be to get 2x2 GB and check whether they fit your demand. If not, you can get another pair, too.
Any good ram you can recommend if my goal is to overclock the 2500k to 5ghz? Do they have to be 1.5v-sticks?

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Or you can (temporarily) use all 3 sticks. Lower 4GB in dual channel and upper 2GB in single channel

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Or you can (temporarily) use all 3 sticks. Lower 4GB in dual channel and upper 2GB in single channel
How about buying G.Skill Ripjaw 2000Mhz Cl9 DDR3 2x4Gb, downclocking it to 1600Mhz, 1.5V and 7-7-7-24? Or will it have any impact to performance versus, lets say a Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz (2x4Gb) CL9? Am I worrying to much about the RAM lol? EDIT: Btw, if I were to buy the G.Skill RAM, is "downvolting" them from the stock 1.55V really necessary? Whats the highest safe temp for the RAM?

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Just perusing through newegg, here are the sets of memory I would currently consider. I'm still not sure if higher bandwidth is more important. FPS testing shows it is, however some around here claim that low latency reduces stutters. I'm a big fan of Mushkin. Try to get sticks as close to what you plan to run as possible. You don't want to get your memory only to find out it won't OC to what you had in mind.2133MHz CL9http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820231435my preference --> http://www.newegg.co...N82E168202262001600MHz CL7http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820226203my preference --> http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820231431http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820226201

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Thanks for all the answers. Performance memory is rare where I live (Sweden), that coupled with the fact that my NH-D14 isn't the most forgiving to RAM leaves me only 2 kits (the only ones being sold here, and that fit and are of interest to me): A Mushkin 2x4GB 1600Mhz @ CL7 kit, and a G.Skill Sniper 2x4Gb 1600Mhz @ CL7 Kit, the Mushkin being 25EUR cheaper. Should I go for the cheapest? EDIT: These are the ones I'm talking about:G.Skill Sniper F3-12800CL7D-8GBSR vsMushkin Enhanced Redline 996981

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In today's market we don't see Rams with timing like 2000MHz 7-7-7-21 or 1600MHz 6-6-6-18 anymore so what you need to look for is the highest MHz with the lowest CL.In your case 1600MHz @ 7-7-7-21 will give you better result compare to 2133MHz at 9-9-9-27 and I'm talking about FSX here, now if you have some 2133MHz that you can overclock @ 8-8-8-24 (yes lower CL from default is overclocking) it will be better but it's not a sure thing, you have to buy the rams and try it, it's a hit and miss situation.You'r asking about two set of rams at CL-7, what are the other numbers? Look for the lowest numbers...7-8-7-22 will be better than 7-9-8-23.I can ear you all getting ready to jump on me about the fact that you will not notice any difference in FSX between this and that....there is a reason why rams with a higher MHz and a lower CL cost more money, it's called performance.There is also the debate about $ vs performance, is it a good thing to spend $100.00 more on rams at 2133MHz with a lower latency when you can get the same 2133MHz with a higher CL for $100.00 less....only your wallet can tell you that.Here for whom ever would like to play.....$325.00 per stick......:Applause: dom_gt_tall-angled_1_2.pngDominator® GT — 2GB DDR3 Memory (CMGTX4)Dominator® GT is the ultimate performance memory solution within the Dominator product line. Limited to only extremely high memory speeds, Corsair Dominator GT only uses highly screened IC’s to guarantee performance and over-clockability. Using ultra efficient Dual-path Heat Xchange (DHX) cooling technology, Dominator GT DDR2 and DDR3 memory modules also ship with the Airflow Fan to maximize heat transfer away from the modules—all the while being stable and reliable. With removable heat sinks, Corsair Dominator GT DDR3 and DDR2 memory modules can even be outfitted with additional upcoming accessories with enhanced features.SPD Latency: 9-9-9-24 Tested Latency: 9-11-10-30 Memory Type: DDR3 Speed Rating: PC3-20260 (2533MHz) Tested Speed: 2533Mhz

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How about these: G.Skill 2000Mhz @CL9, could they be OC'd to maybe 1600Mhz and 7-7-7-24 @ less than 1.6V? They cost almost the same as the other two I showed, are they better?

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How about these: G.Skill 2000Mhz @CL9, could they be OC'd to maybe 1600Mhz and 7-7-7-24 @ less than 1.6V? They cost almost the same as the other two I showed, are they better?
Here this is what you are looking for, no need to OC them..... http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820231444If you want more MHz this is what you are looking for http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820148372What's with the 1.6v or less?? Always run the rams at the default voltage if no OC, 1.5v, 1.6v or 1.65v, what ever they are rated at.If you know somebody who can ship them to you from the state these will be a better choice compare to what you showed us.First set will be better.

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In today's market we don't see Rams with timing like 2000MHz 7-7-7-21 or 1600MHz 6-6-6-18 anymore so what you need to look for is the highest MHz with the lowest CL.In your case 1600MHz @ 7-7-7-21 will give you better result compare to 2133MHz at 9-9-9-27 and I'm talking about FSX here, now if you have some 2133MHz that you can overclock @ 8-8-8-24 (yes lower CL from default is overclocking) it will be better but it's not a sure thing, you have to buy the rams and try it, it's a hit and miss situation.You'r asking about two set of rams at CL-7, what are the other numbers? Look for the lowest numbers...7-8-7-22 will be better than 7-9-8-23.I can ear you all getting ready to jump on me about the fact that you will not notice any difference in FSX between this and that....there is a reason why rams with a higher MHz and a lower CL cost more money, it's called performance.There is also the debate about $ vs performance, is it a good thing to spend $100.00 more on rams at 2133MHz with a lower latency when you can get the same 2133MHz with a higher CL for $100.00 less....only your wallet can tell you that.Here for whom ever would like to play.....$325.00 per stick......:Applause: dom_gt_tall-angled_1_2.pngDominator® GT — 2GB DDR3 Memory (CMGTX4)Dominator® GT is the ultimate performance memory solution within the Dominator product line. Limited to only extremely high memory speeds, Corsair Dominator GT only uses highly screened IC’s to guarantee performance and over-clockability. Using ultra efficient Dual-path Heat Xchange (DHX) cooling technology, Dominator GT DDR2 and DDR3 memory modules also ship with the Airflow Fan to maximize heat transfer away from the modules—all the while being stable and reliable. With removable heat sinks, Corsair Dominator GT DDR3 and DDR2 memory modules can even be outfitted with additional upcoming accessories with enhanced features.SPD Latency: 9-9-9-24 Tested Latency: 9-11-10-30 Memory Type: DDR3 Speed Rating: PC3-20260 (2533MHz) Tested Speed: 2533Mhz
Have you read any reviews on these? I have...Are you sure that 1600 CAS 7 is better in FSX than 2133 CAS 9? What if you run your 2133 at 1866 CAS 8? What would make the 1600 CAS 7 superior? 1600 CAS 7 has less bandwidth and higher latency according to benchmarks. I thought bandwidth and latency were important...KDub

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Hi! I've been on the fence to upgrading my pretty new i7 rig for a while, mostly because im such a geek :D I'm still not 100% on upgrading as my current comp is handling fsx pretty good. But lets say I were to upgrade...I'm looking at a i5 2500K and an Asus P8P67 Deluxe B3, both seem to be handling the FSXMARK11 pretty fantastic. Right now I have 3x2GB Mushkin Redline RAM at 1600 6-8-6-24, which I am very satisified with; but if I were to go Sandy Bridge, would 3 sticks work? Or would I have to drop one stick and in that case would 4GB be sufficient for flying complex demanding planes like the PMDG 747X/MD11 in FSX on win7 64? If no on both accounts, what is your advice to me? Should I buy a 2x4GB kit? I've been looking at mushkins Dual Kits and I haven't been able to find any with a low timing, most are CL8-9. I've been taught that timings were important to the stability and smoothness of FSX, is this still true with SB?Thanks in advance
Hi William,The ram we have is amongst the best there is for FSX. I am convinced that it is a critical part of the great performance I get and 4x2g is best. If you cannot find another stick, it is best to get one that you can downclock to match the Mushkins at 6-8-6-24.If I were you I would send a PM to Kaydub (next above this post). Look what he has!SWAP THREADKind regards,

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Have you read any reviews on these? I have...Are you sure that 1600 CAS 7 is better in FSX than 2133 CAS 9? What if you run your 2133 at 1866 CAS 8? What would make the 1600 CAS 7 superior? 1600 CAS 7 has less bandwidth and higher latency according to benchmarks. I thought bandwidth and latency were important...KDub
I've tested it myself, my rams are rated at 2000MHz at 7-7-7-21 1T, if I set them at 2133 9-9-9-27 the performance in SuperPi is less and in other test to, I'll take 2000MHz 7-7-7-21 any day over 2200MHz at 9-9-9-27 (on the same platform).1866 CAS 7 will make sense compare to 2133 CAS 9 but 1866 CAS 8 would not, here, from Nick,

SAMPLES OF MEMORY SPEED/TIMING

Here is a list of MAX memory timing per speed a user should strive for.. lower than posted is better and there are memory product out there that run lower timing than posted.. they are typically expensive and that is what you pay for DDR2 800 4-4-4DDR2 1066 5-5-5DDR3 1333 6-6-6 (1st or 2nd Generation)DDR3 1600 7-7-7 (1st or 2nd Generation)DDR3 1800/1866 8-8-8 (1st or 2nd Generation)DDR3 2000 (and up) 9-9-9 (1st or 2nd Generation) That being said here are the values a user SHOULD look for in order to obtain highest FSX performance with respect to CPU/Memory communicationDDR2 800 3-3-3DDR2 1066 4-4-4DDR3 1333 5-5-5 (1st or 2nd Generation)DDR3 1600 6-6-6 (1st or 2nd Generation)DDR3 1800/1866 7-7-7 (1st or 2nd Generation) Note: 1800/1866 is really useless compared to 1600 with respect to the right memory timing. If a user wishes to run very high memory speed, opt for 2000 with tighter timing especially running i7. 1st generation DDR3 has issues with the northbridge running large amounts of memory (2x2GB or more). i7 D0 stepping processors and the x58 chipset do not have those issues but still typically requires a higher QPI/DRAM (over 1.37v) to accomplish which can be dangerous to the life of a processor. DDR3 2000 7-7-7 (1st or 2nd Generation) 8-8-8 can be used however 7-7-7 is FAR better.

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In today's market we don't see Rams with timing like 2000MHz 7-7-7-21 or 1600MHz 6-6-6-18 anymore
That's because these days most of us are looking for 4GB modules instead of 2GB.
$75 is cheap! I sold mine for $140, though they were used less than a week. Was Kaydub able to get all 4 sticks to run at 1600 6-8-6-24?

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Hi William,The ram we have is amongst the best there is for FSX. I am convinced that it is a critical part of the great performance I get and 4x2g is best. If you cannot find another stick, it is best to get one that you can downclock to match the Mushkins at 6-8-6-24.If I were you I would send a PM to Kaydub (next above this post). Look what he has!SWAP THREADKind regards,
Thanks for the heads up Stephen. Is there any performance drawbacks to running 4 modules rather than 2? Kaydub, where do you live? EDIT: Depending on where Kaydub lives the freight could get pretty expensive. A 2x2GB 6-8-6-24 1600Mhz Mushkin Kit (serial 996805) is however available where I live. If I were to purchase that kit I would have 5 afaik identical 2GB modules, and I'd be able to run 4x2GB.

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Hi again William,

Thanks for the heads up Stephen. Is there any performance drawbacks to running 4 modules rather than 2?
None that I am aware of. They are stable and as fast as greased lightening.
A 2x2GB 6-8-6-24 1600Mhz Mushkin Kit (serial 996805) is however available where I live. If I were to purchase that kit I would have 5 afaik identical 2GB modules, and I'd be able to run 4x2GB.
Perfect! Buying a dual set is how I went from 6g of Mushkins with my 1366 socket to 8g with Sandy Bridge, which gave me one stick left over. The guy that bought my i7 930 and Asus P6TD Deluxe motherboard ordered a set of two more, and I sold him my extra one, making 6g altogether for him, and 8g for me. Everyone was happy all around. The dual and triple channel sets mix and match well. However, it is likely not a bad idea to have an extra 2g stick in case one ever goes haywire.Kind regards,PS: It is a good idea to upgrade. The FSX performance difference for me from a nearly flawless i7 930 @ 4.3 GHZ to what I have today was substantial in all respects, and well worth it. Go 4 it!

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PS: It is a good idea to upgrade. The FSX performance difference for me from a nearly flawless i7 930 @ 4.3 GHZ to what I have today was substantial in all respects, and well worth it. Go 4 it!
Stephen, thanks for all the help!I have one last question, or two rather, as I said in the start of this thread, I've been looking at the 2500K and a P8P67 Pro/Deluxe motherboard. I have heard different opinions on this, but is the 2600K really any better at overclocking or in FSX? Also is there any real reason to go for the Deluxe rather than the EVO/Pro version? Granted, they are almost the same in price (the mobo's) but I'd like to make the upgrade cheap if the performance difference between the different CPU/Mobos aren't noticeable.The Deluxe has 16+2 in VRM/Phase Power vs 12+2 on the Pro, I've heard from some that it doesn't matter when OCing and that the batch is more important, is this true? Lastly, the 2600K has a higher stock freq and is HT enabled, but afaik FSX doesn't use HT and from the FSX Mark11-bench on this forum the AVG/MIN FPS difference seem to be insignificant, is there any reason why I should go for the more expensive setup? I want to reach 5Ghz so that the upgrade is worthwhile, and if the 2600K is proven to be more OC-able, I'll buy it.Thank You

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Random question, Stephen, but it kind of relates to the topic. What kind of MaxxMEM results do you get with 1600 6-8-6-24? I thought I asked you before, but I couldn't find it anywhere. I just did a 3-test average of two different settings and got the results in the attached summary. I was primarily curious to see how your latency would match up.

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I've tested it myself, my rams are rated at 2000MHz at 7-7-7-21 1T, if I set them at 2133 9-9-9-27 the performance in SuperPi is less and in other test to, I'll take 2000MHz 7-7-7-21 any day over 2200MHz at 9-9-9-27 (on the same platform).1866 CAS 7 will make sense compare to 2133 CAS 9 but 1866 CAS 8 would not, here, from Nick,

SAMPLES OF MEMORY SPEED/TIMING

Here is a list of MAX memory timing per speed a user should strive for.. lower than posted is better and there are memory product out there that run lower timing than posted.. they are typically expensive and that is what you pay for DDR2 800 4-4-4DDR2 1066 5-5-5DDR3 1333 6-6-6 (1st or 2nd Generation)DDR3 1600 7-7-7 (1st or 2nd Generation)DDR3 1800/1866 8-8-8 (1st or 2nd Generation)DDR3 2000 (and up) 9-9-9 (1st or 2nd Generation) That being said here are the values a user SHOULD look for in order to obtain highest FSX performance with respect to CPU/Memory communicationDDR2 800 3-3-3DDR2 1066 4-4-4DDR3 1333 5-5-5 (1st or 2nd Generation)DDR3 1600 6-6-6 (1st or 2nd Generation)DDR3 1800/1866 7-7-7 (1st or 2nd Generation) Note: 1800/1866 is really useless compared to 1600 with respect to the right memory timing. If a user wishes to run very high memory speed, opt for 2000 with tighter timing especially running i7. 1st generation DDR3 has issues with the northbridge running large amounts of memory (2x2GB or more). i7 D0 stepping processors and the x58 chipset do not have those issues but still typically requires a higher QPI/DRAM (over 1.37v) to accomplish which can be dangerous to the life of a processor. DDR3 2000 7-7-7 (1st or 2nd Generation) 8-8-8 can be used however 7-7-7 is FAR better.

Yes, I am very aware of Nick's position. He MAY be right, but he also says the 2600K is superior to the 2500K for FSX and that to differ is "nonsense". I have tried both, and all that I can say is that I can't see any difference in performance. I am staying with my 2600K, but I also have to say that based on Nick's position, I paid $300 for my 8 GB of Mushkin 1600 CAS 6, and that when the 2133 CAS 9 was on Shell Shocker at NewEgg for $99, I jumped on it as a trial. Admittedly, this was on my 1156 i7-860, but replacing 4X2GB of 1600 CAS 6 with 2X4GB of 2133 CAS 9 running at 2000 was a stunning upgrade! Absolutely night and day! No comparison! The 2133 kicked the 1600 all over the place and that performance difference I COULD see. Just sayin'. :Raised Eyebrow: Kdub

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Random question, Stephen, but it kind of relates to the topic. What kind of MaxxMEM results do you get with 1600 6-8-6-24? I thought I asked you before, but I couldn't find it anywhere. I just did a 3-test average of two different settings and got the results in the attached summary. I was primarily curious to see how your latency would match up.
Here it is Corey:692MaxxMemTest.pngKind regards,

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Stephen, thanks for all the help!I have one last question, or two rather, as I said in the start of this thread, I've been looking at the 2500K and a P8P67 Pro/Deluxe motherboard. I have heard different opinions on this, but is the 2600K really any better at overclocking or in FSX? Also is there any real reason to go for the Deluxe rather than the EVO/Pro version? Granted, they are almost the same in price (the mobo's) but I'd like to make the upgrade cheap if the performance difference between the different CPU/Mobos aren't noticeable.The Deluxe has 16+2 in VRM/Phase Power vs 12+2 on the Pro, I've heard from some that it doesn't matter when OCing and that the batch is more important, is this true? Lastly, the 2600K has a higher stock freq and is HT enabled, but afaik FSX doesn't use HT and from the FSX Mark11-bench on this forum the AVG/MIN FPS difference seem to be insignificant, is there any reason why I should go for the more expensive setup? I want to reach 5Ghz so that the upgrade is worthwhile, and if the 2600K is proven to be more OC-able, I'll buy it.Thank You
Hi again William,At the risk of having my opinion trashed like Nick's, :unsure: the 2600K is a wiser investment (for me) than the 2500K for a number of reasons, including that I have read that they are of a higher bin quality than the 2500K. Although HT does not benefit FSX directly, there is a good chance that MS Flight (which may be just around the corner) will like it a lot, and besides, it is already helpful with a host of other applications. The $ difference between the two is small when compared with the overall cost of the total FSX engine. For me, the 2600K is considerably more future proof for a small premium. This computer will be my MS Flight machine.As far as which ASUS board, I am less certain. The primary reason I bought the ASUS P8P67 Deluxe (B2 replaced by B3) was because the Sandy Bridge MSI MB I ordered was DOA, and this one was available sooner than some others. However, I do like the USB 3.0 connections being available through the front of the case, although I have nothing that uses them yet. I cannot tell you that the Phase control differences matter because I have no personal experience with OCing anything other than the ASUS P8P67 Deluxe. This MB overclocks easily to 5.0 GHZ without drama or stress. What more can I say? That is kind of as good as it gets.As far as using the Mushkin 1600 Ram is concerned, they were one of the only ones that would fit under my Prolimatech heatsink, and since I already owned a few sticks, it was a no-brainer. The CPU, MB, RAM, GPU and SSDs seem to like FSX and each other a lot, so I am pleased with the performance envelope. But, as poor Nick has said so often: "Your mileage may vary." Kind regards,

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