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Why is MS still using 2D Clouds?

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Just curious, why is MS still using FS2000 style 2D clouds? Don't you guys think that it's odd that even though half of what a pilot see are the sky and the clouds, MS had spent very little effort on them by judging from their screenshots.Surely with today's DX11 Shader, Tessellation and AI Procedural generation technology we can come up with something better? I remember the old Jane's WW2 Fighters from 1998 had 3D Clouds.Also better haze layers would be nice, e.g. Inversions, pollution, radiation/steam fog, localized visibility changes with showers etc.

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Just curious, why is MS still using FS2000 style 2D clouds? Don't you guys think that it's odd that even though half of what a pilot see are the sky and the clouds, MS had spent very little effort on them by judging from their screenshots.Surely with today's DX11 Shader, Tessellation and AI Procedural generation technology we can come up with something better? I remember the old Jane's WW2 Fighters from 1998 had 3D Clouds.Also better haze layers would be nice, e.g. Inversions, pollution, radiation/steam fog, localized visibility changes with showers etc.
I'm with you but what you'r asking from MS is called a "brand new engine" something they don't have for Flight, they are using the engine use in FSX and they are making changes to it, MS is calling it a new engine because of the changes they are making to it (5%-10% 50% changes...who know), they may have better clouds at the end when Flight is released but I don't expect much.

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I'm with you but what you'r asking from MS is called a "brand new engine" something they don't have for Flight, they are using the engine use in FSX and they are making changes to it, MS is calling it a new engine because of the changes they are making to it (5%-10% 50% changes...who know), they may have better clouds at the end when Flight is released but I don't expect much.
nice post, mr negative  :(

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nice post, mr negative :(
LOL ...youuu.....:( I'm not negative I'm just cautious with what I'm seeing, I mean we all know by now that the engine use for Flight started with the same engine use for FSX, so from there anything MS will do to improve in it is a positive, will the improvement be 5% - 10% or 50% ....we don't know.....so far what did we see compare to FSX, better texture (with repeating pattern) tree shadows-waving in the breeze (I took this one from another forums) and Hawaii been the selling starting point for Flight.

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Geez. I doubt that there is enough popcorn on the planet to keep me occupied while I read about all of the different ways you can read tea leaves here.But I'm working on it one Jiffy Pop at a time! :(

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I'm with you but what you'r asking from MS is called a "brand new engine" something they don't have for Flight, they are using the engine use in FSX and they are making changes to it, MS is calling it a new engine because of the changes they are making to it (5%-10% 50% changes...who know), they may have better clouds at the end when Flight is released but I don't expect much.
Do be honest I don't think it's that difficult to implement, given that MS implemented light bloom and cockpit shadows in FSX's DX10 Preview mode. I'm thinking about 3D tessellation with nearby clouds and 2D bitmaps for the more distant clouds. Surely something incremental could be done.

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nice post, mr negative  :(
He speaks the truth IMHO. Flight is using an enhanced FSX engine not a 'new' engine.Do you think we will get cloud shadows (let alone '3d' clouds) in Flight? From what we've seen so far I very much doubt it.All modern flight games/sims (XP9, IL2 COD, DCS A10, Wings of Prey, Rise Of Flight etc) have cloud shadows, but not Flight, why, because its using the FSX 'engine'.

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So cloud shadows wouldn't be possible with the FSX engine? I doubt it. If Microsoft is building Flight on the FSX SP2/Acceleration engine we may well see better clouds and shadowing. Would be nice!

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Wow, alot of people here know everything about MS Flight. Can I ask how you guys know it is not a new engine? Are you in the MS team?

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Wow, alot of people here know everything about MS Flight. Can I ask how you guys know it is not a new engine? Are you in the MS team?
Look at the screenshots.... if it was new engine it would look quite different. Flight = Enhanced FSX engine and nicer textures.

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The functions a 3D computer environment gets is from two things, the rendering engine and the physics engine, one is for appearance, the other for movement, AI etc. Therefore you cannot confirm what 3D engine is being run from a screenshot, unless you are psychic.Al

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There seem to be a few around here who can...

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you cannot confirm what 3D engine is being run from a screenshot
If the 3D engine was a rewrite we wouldn't be seeing the same 'deficiencies' in the Flight screenshots that we see in FSX. This has been discussed much already.Look at other flight sims which are written by different teams using different techniques, they all look different to FSX. If Flight is being developed by a new team and they are writing a new 3D engine then why does it look the same as FSX. The screens we have see of Flight are at an advanced stage of development, and yet no cloud shadows! How is it possible for a new engine at this advanced stage of development to not show something as fundamental as cloud shadows. IL2-COD, DCS-A10, ROF, IL2-Sturmovik, WingsOfPrey, Outerra, etc all have cloud shadows but not Flight. Why? Because Flight is using the same 3D engine as FSX and FSX can't support cloud shadows.Microsoft has shown nothing that proves the 3D engine is new. Show me some cloud shadows and then Ill change my tune.

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Microsoft has shown nothing that proves the 3D engine is new. Show me some cloud shadows and then Ill change my tune.
They haven't shown anything which conclusively proves it is the same either. It might look the same in a lot of ways, but to claim that you know it is the same based purely on screenshots is not based on enough evidence to make it an irrefutable conclusion, it is merely an assumption. That assumption could be correct of course, and it may very well be, but we do not know it is.Al

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Well guess what FSX had them. Look at the lower left hand corner on this picture.......If I remember correctly MS dropted clouds shadow because of the FPS hit (don't quote me on this one). That was to be use with FSX DX10 so I will not be surprised to see this option back in Flight.Like I said, will it be 5% - 10% or 50% improvement....??CLOUDSHADOWS4.png

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Wow, alot of people here know everything about MS Flight. Can I ask how you guys know it is not a new engine? Are you in the MS team?
Everything Microsoft has actually said about Flight is here http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/Anything else here is pure speculation - obviously uninformed.

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And I can tell by the screenshots that is for XBOX 360 only. :(

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I wouldn't call this an 'engine' issue. FSX clouds use particles - like everyone else.What people are really complaining about is the number and size of the particles.Obviously fewer large particles run faster than many small particles which look better.The goal in any smoke-cloud effect is to increase the number of particles until the ‘trick’ is hidden, then stop.And the ‘trick’ is that even the coolest effects in games use 2D particles.It is true there is ongoing work to make particle systems more efficient; but the big win comes from faster hardware.We keep talking about a "brand new engine" and it is a term developers use but do we understand what it actually means.The chances that the particle system is rewritten are reasonably good. So is that a new engine to you?I look at it this way, if we reduced the draw distance from 110miles to that of a typical game – maybe 1 mile…the FSX engine would be unrecognizable. (and vice versa)

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HelloMore than you ever wanted to know about MS cloud rendering.http://ofb.net/~eggplant/clouds/http://ofb.net/~niniane/clouds-jgt.pdf

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And people need to find the videos about how the clouds are rendered in FS. If they became educated about the process, they would understand.

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They are not rendering 3D clouds or actual cloud shadows. They are darkening the ground textures when there are certain cloud coverages. It is only in a certain part of the world and does not work with any real time weather.

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They are not rendering 3D clouds or actual cloud shadows. They are darkening the ground textures when there are certain cloud coverages. It is only in a certain part of the world and does not work with any real time weather.
I understand, I was just showing what can be done with FSX as of today, will MS make a come back with cloud shadowings as they were suppose to as seen on the pic. I posted above or will they leave it to add-ons developers?

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No add-on developers have been able to do it, not even the REX folks, so that pretty much answers things for FSX and nobody can say for Flight.

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No add-on developers have been able to do it, (yet) not even the REX folks, so that pretty much answers things for FSX (never know, MS may give us a little something to boost FSX just to keep us FSX users happy when Flight is released, does not mean cloud shadows but how hard will it be for them to do that since they are already using or building Flight from the same engine, we were all very sad when Aces closed and did not finished FSX DX10 so could it be that.....naaaaa... could it? http://blogs.msdn.co...t-fsx-dx10.aspx )and nobody can say for Flight. :( :(

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