How come it is that way ? Is it the same on the real one ?

It is not normal Sir. And I'm trying to draw attantion to this.... And one problem more: http://forum.avsim.n...ruise-altitude/

It is not normal Sir. And I'm trying to draw attantion to this.... And one problem more: http://forum.avsim.n...ruise-altitude/

I am the lucky one who has still not purchased NGX :) when I buy something it has to be perfect and especially and aircraft.

Me and many other customers of this Great model CONFIRMED problem ( GP attitude zero ). Great thanks to Vladtop for investigation! PMDG, please- take a look into this very bad air dynamics problem! We are all just want to continue fly with that beauty PMDG product!For me is wrongest 0 or 2-3 right degree of attitude in glide is very important thing.

Me and many other customers of this Great model CONFIRMED problem ( GP attitude zero ). Great thanks to Vladtop for investigation! PMDG, please- take a look into this very bad air dynamics problem! We are all just want to continue fly with that beauty PMDG product!For me is wrongest 0 or 2-3 right degree of attitude in glide is very important thing.

They have quite a few fixes needed to be done on her . yes 3 degrees is correct.

They have quite a few fixes needed to be done on her . yes 3 degrees is correct.

Dear Sir, I have installed all hotfixes.

Dear Sir, I have installed all hotfixes.

I don't mean the fixes , i mean certain other small minor issues which user's point out .

I don't mean the fixes , i mean certain other small minor issues which user's point out .

Roger.

LOL took a long time to get to the point. Many other customers have mentioned the pitch on approach and touch down. To me it's very clear that the plane behaves as if it has too much lift.                                   The pitch on approach is a result of the glide path angle and percentage of stall speed flown. The pitch may differ between aircraft based on wing design. The FAA states that approach speeds will be a minimum of 1.3 of stall speed. The pitch will stay the same at different weights because you are still flying that same percentage of stall speed. Most high speed low lift wings require slats and flaps. In the DC-10, we would pitch 17 to 20 degrees for V2+10. This aircraft requires a higher pitch to create lift. Slats allow the higher pitch by causing the over wing airflow to adhere to the top of the wing at the high angle of attack. But this wing design is very efficient at cruise. The speed that the airflow over the wing goes supersonic is the critical mach number(mach tuck starts as the center of lift moves aft because of the shockwave). The higher this speed, the faster the plane can fly. The DC-10-30 had a critical mach number of .88. that was the speed limit(350/.88). I used to tell my new DC-10 pilots that I could go from NY to Cali if I never rotated. You Basically force this plane to fly. Planes with slats will have a positive pitch on approach. On average it's 2.5 to 4.5 on a 3 degree GP. Even higher the shallower the angle.

when i first learnt to fly airliners in manual circuits you always fly the 5 degree nose up bar and hold it steady at 5 degrees , if you want to climb ,if you are too low , you add power, and likewise if you want to descend reduce power

PAT / APT

I usually find these threads ridiculous, but I think I may have to agree with the OP. I feel like I'm barely flaring and almost landing flat.

There is a Table called FLIGHT WITH UNRELIABLE AIRSPEED. Shows very precise pitch / N1 data for all landing flaps 15 30 40 and various weights for a stabilised 3.0 degree glideslope at 1500 asl. As you can (will) see the NGx performs within 0.5 degrees and 3% N1 for all weights. The reference is PI 30.39 for the -800 and PI 40.43 for the -900.The table is used by the crew when they lost for example their speed tape and they HAVE to fly this attitude with noted engine setting. The table has been used extensively for tuning performance. You can also check accuracy for climb and cruise. Finally for a few people stirring apathy : please stop playing Boeing test pilot and enjoy a very accurate plane or at least consult proper documentation.

There is a Table called FLIGHT WITH UNRELIABLE AIRSPEED. Shows very precise pitch / N1 data for all landing flaps 15 30 40 and various weights for a stabilised 3.0 degree glideslope at 1500 asl. As you can (will) see the NGx performs within 0.5 degrees and 3% N1 for all weights. The reference is PI 30.39 for the -800 and PI 40.43 for the -900. The table is used by the crew when they lost for example their speed tape and they HAVE to fly this attitude with noted engine setting. The table has been used extensively for tuning performance. You can also check accuracy for climb and cruise. Finally for a few people stirring apathy : please stop playing Boeing test pilot and enjoy a very accurate plane or at least consult proper documentation.

Ok sir,The FLIGHT WITH UNRELIABLE AIRSPEED charts carry a safty margin. If you look at the chart closely, the final approach chart is based on REF+10. I'll share a experiance that i've had with unreliable airspeed in a moment. As I was saying this chart carries extra speed for obvious reasons. proper documentation?I would like to refer you to the training manual with the Boeing copyright. If you look below section 6 under vasi landing geometery, there are charts that show the approach pitch on a 3.0 degree glide path. The text also states that the charts are based on REF+5. For example, on the -800, on a 3.0 GP the pitch is 2.4(non SFP) and 3.6(SFP). Further down in that section is a touch down attitude chart. These charts show the effects of airspeed on the pitch at touch down. For example, a 140,000lb -800 will touch down at 4.6 at VREF for flaps 30. The SFP 1 position skid will touch at 4.5 and SFP 2 position skid would be at 6.0. These attitudes equate to a 2 to 3 degree flare. The flare procedure is further explained in that same section. These charts,along with unreliable airspeed, have also been represented in the manual of every commercial FAA certified jet that i've flown. Boeing test pilots?As far as Boeing test pilots goes, no i don't claim to be one. I'm not a test pilot at all. I have been check flight certified in the aircraft i've flown. As you are familiar, during C-check the aircraft is torn apart and then put back together. Before we accept the aircraft, we perform a test flight. During this flight we readjust/check the AOA and stall system. We check the stick shaker speed and stick pusher speeds(Gulfstreams). We airstart engines, go down to battery only,etc. We check the pressurization safety features, the overspeed systems, mach trim, aircraft trim. speed brake rigging and a whole checklist of items. It usually takes 2 to 3 flights as you allways find something wrong after a heavy c-check. My unreliable airspeed experianceDuring a c-check test flight on a DC-10, during the v2+10 climb i noticed i had to lower the nose to keep v2+10. Target pitch for that flight was 20 degrees. I called for altitude hold as we noticed that my all the airspeed indicators were decreasing in the climb. I asked for flaps 22 and directed the co to call for a imediate return opposite direction visual approach. I had the engineer give me the approach speed and calculate a reference ground speed based on winds. I turn 45 degrees right flying pitch for that flap setting. After a few minutes I turned back left to intercept course and flew a pitch of 4.5 on the visual as the eng kept me up to date on the reference ground speed. After landing they found some wasp building nests in the pitot/static systems. Actually caused problems on the L,R, and standby system. Glad we only perform the test during day time VFR. All I could think about was the 757 that had a similar problem.

This is indeed a very interesting topic. I see in the original pic, that the FPV was not engaged.jen noulet

800fpm makes more sense. Then the problem has to be the airplane being lighter than what it was when VREF was selected. Try getting an updated VREF for the actual landing mass. If VREF is selected too early without subtracting the remaining trip fuel, you might be flying even 10 knots faster than you need.

What is exactly, the best time to set up Vref on the Approach page? The checklist shows that it should be done just before decent, but would it be better to do it later in the approach?

I too noticed that the NGX is too "slippery". If you want you can hoover just above the ground for a long long way with idle power and a minimum reduction of airspeed. I think the flight model is very accurate in the climb, cruise and descent, but far from realistic in the lower regions in approach configs. Hopefully PMDG will address this issue for SP1.