Ryan (PMDG) Help (FIX) required please Re. attitude on finals

[G550flyer 1,013]

"Tonyf38 testuse at your own risk. back up first.-800[Flaps.0]................." Thanx! that really made a difference in the pitch, now with Vref+5 it is as it should be:-) /Rodd

Good, hows your flare and touchdown?

[wanabflyer 53]

Gents- As has been pointed out a number of times, the flight model here already conforms to the Pitch-With-Unreliable-Airspeed table. We'll take a look at it for SP1, but that is not the same as saying we will tinker with it just to satisfy one person's opinion or another. We operate with facts, and data- not with opinions and "I think..." Now- as for the behavior in this thread: Some of you folks need to stop bashing anyone who offers an opinion here. The original poster in this thread has a legitimate question and yes, he makes a hash of things trying to impress with his reported credentials- but that doesn't give anyone the right to go bashing... FWIW: We've seen enough real and imaginary airline pilots in this forum to know when we are dealing with professionals vs. wanna-be's... Please let us deal with those issues.

So can we gather that there may be a discrepancy here and you are going to check this and fix if required?

[Paul Deemer 13]

So can we gather that there may be a discrepancy here and you are going to check this and fix if required?

I think he made it pretty plain. If they change anything it won't be until SP1. They don't plan on tinkering with the flight model based on Wannabe Pilot Opinions and If Facts and Data support a change then they may do it. Guess it means we will have to wait and see what happens.

[Donstim 109]

One problem is that there does not appear to have been any direct response (or I missed it) to the concern that has been expressed multiple times that the unreliable airspeed information (facts and data) may have been used incorrectly for the approach and landing flare regime.Don Stimson

[wanabflyer 53]

One problem is that there does not appear to have been any direct response (or I missed it) to the concern that has been expressed multiple times that the unreliable airspeed information (facts and data) may have been used incorrectly for the approach and landing flare regime. Don Stimson

Thanks Don. I thought it was just me that feels like they missed something.

[Ponk 51]

Landing flare work perfect, as long as you are not in ground effect, tone down the ground effect and the landing problems are solved.

[Jen 0]

Sounds like a trade-off to get the ground-effect.. (float).. correctly done & as a result compromised the landing attitude (4deg to 7deg.) at touchdown @ (Vref30+5)....Please!, please, this is only my opinion. No flames intended. I'm sure it will be correct in the upcoming SP. Regards,jen

[Skysurfer7 34]

Tonyf38 testuse at your own risk. back up first.-800[Flaps.0]type=1 // ** FLAPS **extending-time=39 // Total secondsspan-outboard=0.69 // 0.0 .. 1.0flaps-position.0 = 0.000 // pseudo-degreesflaps-position.1 = 8.888 // 1................

Tested the tweak in 800-WL version, although it gives you 2.5 deg nose up on 3 deg ILS with Vref+5, the tweak seems to overpower the NGX engines.Tested orig. version 3deg ILS approach flaps40 : N1-68.8% at 1000' & 62.4% at 500'Tweak version, exactly same conditions : N1-56.4% at 1000' & 56.2% at 500'Quite a difference here! anyway staying with the original version & hoping PMDG will correct this in SP1.

[Guest tonyf38]

I noticed too Rodd, but it's just a tweak to give a more accurate pitch attitude on final and touchdown and to add some drag so the aircraft has a more realistic behavior through the flare.. If you can't land the aircraft with about a 3-4 nose up attitude at the correct airspeed and plant it on the 1500' runway marker, something is just a little off in the model..What's your N1 with flaps 30?.. It's about 55 % in the real aircraft..

[Jetman67 517]

that hurts being called a wannabee pilot he he

[martin-w 3,235]

I can't for the life of me see how anyone can say the PMDG NGX is "too floaty" or has "too little drag". I can only assume people are leaving the autothrust on or something of that nature. Certainly not floaty here. I've had plenty of firm landings. Landings have been superb, well modeled! Quite frankly I'd be thoroughly annoyed if PMDG messed with the all ready excellent behavior of the aircraft in terms of drag and degree of floatiness. As for the pitch on approach, I am foxed why PMDG say this is hard to fix and requires tinkering with the airfile. The lift_scalar setting of 0.8, is something I came up with a while back and took a few minutes to set, and hits it bang on. Hardly difficult at all. The pitch on approach isn't far out, it's just a tad, but i think the plethora of real world videos I posted a while back conforms that it is slightly out. Probably only by about 1.5 degrees. Personally I don't give a monkey's if PMDG fix it, because it's so easy to tweak ourselves.

I noticed too Rodd, but it's just a tweak to give a more accurate pitch attitude on final and touchdown and to add some drag so the aircraft has a more realistic behavior through the flare.. If you can't land the aircraft with about a 3-4 nose up attitude at the correct airspeed and plant it on the 1500' runway marker, something is just a little off in the model.. What's your N1 with flaps 30?.. It's about 55 % in the real aircraft..

3-4 degree nose up attitude in the flare no... but no problem planting on the 1500 runway marker at all here. I'm foxed why anyone has the add-on floating too much. Power back at 20 feet and simultaneously flare a couple of degrees and it's a perfect landing. [Apart from the pitch] I think too many people are claiming to be real world 737 pilots, and stating how they "assume" the aircrafts behavior should be. I'd much rather PMDG left the pitch alone and we added the simple 0.8 lift_scalar ourselves if we fancied it. And those who are floating too much are using a dodgy landing technique in my view. Martin Wilby

[Jen 0]

Well, why not settle this whole thing and have some inputs from the RL drivers of the 800. Quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of hearing about what it should be and what it is.....Can some RL's please intervene and give us a 'heads-up' on this seemingly taunting dilemma once and for all???....

[Guest tonyf38]

Martin, how do you know how the real aircraft behaves??

[G550flyer 1,013]

I can't for the life of me see how anyone can say the PMDG NGX is "too floaty" or has "too little drag". I can only assume people are leaving the autothrust on or something of that nature. Certainly not floaty here. I've had plenty of firm landings. Landings have been superb, well modeled! Quite frankly I'd be thoroughly annoyed if PMDG messed with the all ready excellent behavior of the aircraft in terms of drag and degree of floatiness. As for the pitch on approach, I am foxed why PMDG say this is hard to fix and requires tinkering with the airfile. The lift_scalar setting of 0.8, is something I came up with a while back and took a few minutes to set, and hits it bang on. Hardly difficult at all. The pitch on approach isn't far out, it's just a tad, but i think the plethora of real world videos I posted a while back conforms that it is slightly out. Probably only by about 1.5 degrees. Personally I don't give a monkey's if PMDG fix it, because it's so easy to tweak ourselves. 3-4 degree nose up attitude in the flare no... but no problem planting on the 1500 runway marker at all here. I'm foxed why anyone has the add-on floating too much. Power back at 20 feet and simultaneously flare a couple of degrees and it's a perfect landing. [Apart from the pitch] I think too many people are claiming to be real world 737 pilots, and stating how they "assume" the aircrafts behavior should be. I'd much rather PMDG left the pitch alone and we added the simple 0.8 lift_scalar ourselves if we fancied it. And those who are floating too much are using a dodgy landing technique in my view. Martin Wilby

The people are floating because they are pitching towards the boeing training manual attitudes(not a good idea in the unedited model). The only reason this thread exist is because the model doesn't coincide with the boeing manuals in the landing configuration. The approach pitch(2-4) and the touchdown attitude(4-7) covers the range of the 600 through 900ER to include SFP. The manual, not public opinion, is stating the obvious. All of the data and guidance that make up the manuals, were derived from flight test in the real world aircraft. No matter how many wanna be, desktop or real world pilots state the issue with the model, it doesn't matter. Boeing test programs and pilots confirmed the behavior of the real aircraft prior to the first real world delivery.

[Skysurfer7 34]

I noticed too Rodd, but it's just a tweak to give a more accurate pitch attitude on final and touchdown and to add some drag so the aircraft has a more realistic behavior through the flare.. If you can't land the aircraft with about a 3-4 nose up attitude at the correct airspeed and plant it on the 1500' runway marker, something is just a little off in the model.. What's your N1 with flaps 30?.. It's about 55 % in the real aircraft..

The flare & landing is much smoother & easier with your tweak. You are absolutely correct about the pitch problem it should be fixed by PMDG, it's not realistic now! But I'm worried about the behavior of the FMS with the tweak, if the engines are overpowered, then the calculations may be wrong????I haven't tried with flaps30 nor did I do a full flight....but will try do it this weekend./Rodd