XP 10 Landscapes

[fvapres 7]

I can't wait to see my home airport...its always been an eyesore with very mislaid taxiways and buildings. I can't wait to do it right and place the burger shack next door so you actually can get a $100 hamburger in a sim.

[Fake Austin 0]

I can't wait to do it right and place the burger shack next door so you actually can get a $100 hamburger in a sim.

that "actually" part is something I'm gonna want to see!!!

[ryanbatc 13,107]

Hi rojantrojan, thanks for posting those comparisons...I like the atmospheric conditions in XP10 better than X.There's a few issues with your comparison. You're comparing a new and upcoming (and unfinished) product against a five year old default product. Put GEX/UTX in your installation and maybe if you fly the NW USA you can put in Orbx and you'll quickly find that those addons will bring FSX right up to that XP 10 level. To get the atmospheric conditions you'd probably have to use FEX/REX/ASX etc but the point is I certainly would HOPE XP10 stock is better than FSX with addons. Does XP10 in those shots look better than stock FSX? Yes it does. Does XP10 look better than addon FSX? I personally don't think so.. I think it looks about the same. Those XP textures appear to be around the same resolution as FSX's stock 1m textures. Of course the vector graphics can go as small as 7cm.I understand for a lot of the XP guys that coming from XP9 this is a huge leap! I think that's why we're seeing people like me say things like, "yeah it looks good but...." and the XP guys saying "this looks amazing." It's because FSXers (if I can use that title) are used to seeing textures which XP10 has.Still XP10 is looking real solid. I wrote in another Microsoft Flight thread that I will definitely be purchasing XP10, as well as MS Flight (even though I'm upset because I believe it's Hawaii only)

[1mikel151 71]

Been following the thread and hopefully arriving at the right conclusion. So the object placements are 'easy" as to modify visuals. IE: Creating an outpost in the bush or modifying a stock airport is not as time consuming as before? Not trolling, but , in FSX to make changes in airport, adding heli pads, trees, buildings etc. take 10 hours. The same location X Plane, how long to do the same? The reason I ask, it appears X Plane is made to be modified via the regular Joe. It has an open source type atmosphere. Am I correct in assuming this? If modifying small out of the way bush type airports are easily modified, for me that is a deal maker. On the other hand, one has to be a semi pro to do the mods, no problem. Great having Aerosoft dig into this project. You build, I will buy!

in all honestly, if it takes you ten hours to make any scenery changes in FSX, i doubt it'll be any different in any other sim, as that is a hug amount of time. With something like instant scenery and the default libraries in FSX, it should only take minutes to build a basic scenery.Simmo W, I am very interested in scenery for XP10, Since you state that Blender is the app of choice, is it because of the obj format or something else. While I mainly use Gmax for FSX objects, I have sketchup, Blender, Rhino, and a couple of other modelers installed for various purposes and formats. I can lay down a HR photo ground poly with masks and seasons and add custom objects in under a week for FSX, are there tools/tutorials for this in XP10?

[rojantrojan 17]

Hi rojantrojan, thanks for posting those comparisons...I like the atmospheric conditions in XP10 better than X.There's a few issues with your comparison. You're comparing a new and upcoming (and unfinished) product against a five year old default product. Put GEX/UTX in your installation and maybe if you fly the NW USA you can put in Orbx and you'll quickly find that those addons will bring FSX right up to that XP 10 level. To get the atmospheric conditions you'd probably have to use FEX/REX/ASX etc but the point is I certainly would HOPE XP10 stock is better than FSX with addons. Does XP10 in those shots look better than stock FSX? Yes it does. Does XP10 look better than addon FSX? I personally don't think so.. I think it looks about the same. Those XP textures appear to be around the same resolution as FSX's stock 1m textures. Of course the vector graphics can go as small as 7cm.I understand for a lot of the XP guys that coming from XP9 this is a huge leap! I think that's why we're seeing people like me say things like, "yeah it looks good but...." and the XP guys saying "this looks amazing." It's because FSXers (if I can use that title) are used to seeing textures which XP10 has.Still XP10 is looking real solid. I wrote in another Microsoft Flight thread that I will definitely be purchasing XP10, as well as MS Flight (even though I'm upset because I believe it's Hawaii only)

Hi Ryan.Thanks for the comment. I agree with you about your issues. Comparing stock XP10 with stock FSX was what I was going for and I wanted to see for myself what the differences were. You are quite right in saying about FSX being an older sim and what we really need is to see what Flight will bring to the table. As I said in my comparison post that FSX holds its own for a flight sim from 2006 (I think it's 2006). I still love it. With all these flight simulator platforms it's what 3rd party developers bring to the party and it would be nice to see what others could achieved with XP10. If it gains in popularity I'm sure there will be some great potential. I do like the look of Flight also and as I've bought every MSFS franchise I'm sure I'll be buying it. I really doubt it's Hawaii only. Well...I hope not. I like XP10 OSM driven data model I think this could lead to some incredible scenery. I think the most important point here is that the average Joe is looking at XP10 for the first time and that can only be good for such a niche hobby which personally I'm very excited about. All we need now is a Falcon 5.0 and Fly! 3 to be developed and we'll be back in business! ;-)CheersRhydian

[Simmo W 24]

in all honestly, if it takes you ten hours to make any scenery changes in FSX, i doubt it'll be any different in any other sim, as that is a hug amount of time. With something like instant scenery and the default libraries in FSX, it should only take minutes to build a basic scenery.Simmo W, I am very interested in scenery for XP10, Since you state that Blender is the app of choice, is it because of the obj format or something else. While I mainly use Gmax for FSX objects, I have sketchup, Blender, Rhino, and a couple of other modelers installed for various purposes and formats. I can lay down a HR photo ground poly with masks and seasons and add custom objects in under a week for FSX, are there tools/tutorials for this in XP10?

Mike, put a link in for some of your sceneries for fsx, I'll have a fly over them.No, it's not the obj format. There are plugins available for Sketchup, AC3d and Blender, take your pick. If u are confident with SU or AC3D, give that a go first.Full time, you could do a basic small airport with few buildings in a week. The placement and conversion tools are a doddle. It's the 3d modelling that's the hard bit.Try these links:http://xplane10.wordpress.com/ - I tag any of my scenery posts as such. You can follow my own learnings. Any really frustrating stuff I highlight. http://wiki.x-plane.com/Category:Scenery_DevelopmentGreat one stop shop, a lot to read though! Has links to the tools like WED http://wiki.x-plane.com/Category:Scenery_Tutorialshttp://www.x-plane.org/home/johnnotis/wm/wm-tutorial.htmlA great little tute using blenderDespite the generally prickly nature of some 'org' moderators, I've found the scenery dev forum here very welcoming and helpful:http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showforum=7And last but not least, frequent the xpilot forums here: http://forums.x-pilot.com/index.php/indexTom Kyler and many other talented devs 'live' here and it's worth keeping up with their progress and you can even ask em a technical question if u get stuck. It's heavily aircraft oriented, just a little scenery talk, but I'm sure that will eventually even out :-)Happy reading! I'll post this handy list to the blog soon, as it's a regularly asked question.

[GoranM 3,813]

You're a regular link-fest, Simon.

[Simmo W 24]

You're a regular link-fest, Simon.

Ha, well someone's gotta do it! Thank god I kept a 'scenery dev' bookmarks folder instead of just chucking it all in the 'xplane' one.Yes, moving little objects around WED is the easy bit. Youll get better results than fsx default, but if u want bespoke signs and buildings, then get reading and practicing!Remember kiddies, repeat after me- "my object only has one texture file..." I still get pm's from sketchup users with 15 texture files, asking why it doesn't work.

[1mikel151 71]

Thanks Simon, appreciate the links. As for my work, just search AVSIM for Michael Carr, although I have a ton of unreleased things i am just to lazy to finish, LOL.The main reason I ask about formats is i do modeling for other communities and as such, do lots of converting of file formats. I find the UI in blender horrible, but I can import other formats, Plus with the pro version of sketchup, you can import other file formats. So in theory, I already have the objects, just wondering about the process of getting them into XP10, guess I'll do some more reading, thanks again.

[tkyler 88]

Hey Michael, howdy from San Antonio...I used to live in Lewisville right near Coppell..small world. Anyhow, I think there are 3 options to export 3D to x-plane obj format. Blender, AC3D and Sketchup each have exporters I think. There have been a few studio max ones "rumored" but I have yet to see a reliable one. As long as you can get your 3D into one of these apps then it really doesn't matter which one you use, especially for scenery where the export requirements are simple and do not generally require animations or fancy cockpit related stuff. You can basically open up the stuff in Blender, perhaps do a few quality checks (differences in coordinates or offsets perhaps) and simply export. As to why I myself would say Blender is the app of choice, the primary reason would be because of the "native" support for xplane objects. Beyond that, it's the fact that blender is the fastest 3D creation app I have used (and I've used a lot dating back to 1995) and it also allows me 100% control over each and every verticie. I realize this modeling style isn't for everybody though, I'm just giving you my perspective. I still have yet to see someone who "finally" gets blender regret learning it...though getting to that point can be painful.Hopefully you'll see video tutorials from me some time in 2012 going over the scenery system in detail.

If modifying small out of the way bush type airports are easily modified, for me that is a deal maker

The "modifying part" is definitely the easy part. Creating the modifications is the time consuming part...i.e. the 3D objects and textures. Once the artwork is created, modifying xplane itself is as easy as opening WED, laying in an "exclusion zone" to erase what you dont want...trees, roads, autogen, etc) and then simply inserting what you have created or perhaps a pre-built elements from the library. I did the entire default KSEA airport in about 3 weeks, including creating a lot of the art from scratch....so it definitely CAN be done quick...the tools are there.-Tom KylerXPlane10 sceneryXPlane 10 aircraft

[MikeT707 1,181]

Hey Michael, howdy from San Antonio...I used to live in Lewisville right near Coppell..small world. Anyhow, I think there are 3 options to export 3D to x-plane obj format. Blender, AC3D and Sketchup each have exporters I think. There have been a few studio max ones "rumored" but I have yet to see a reliable one. As long as you can get your 3D into one of these apps then it really doesn't matter which one you use, especially for scenery where the export requirements are simple and do not generally require animations or fancy cockpit related stuff. You can basically open up the stuff in Blender, perhaps do a few quality checks (differences in coordinates or offsets perhaps) and simply export. As to why I myself would say Blender is the app of choice, the primary reason would be because of the "native" support for xplane objects. Beyond that, it's the fact that blender is the fastest 3D creation app I have used (and I've used a lot dating back to 1995) and it also allows me 100% control over each and every verticie. I realize this modeling style isn't for everybody though, I'm just giving you my perspective. I still have yet to see someone who "finally" gets blender regret learning it...though getting to that point can be painful.Hopefully you'll see video tutorials from me some time in 2012 going over the scenery system in detail.The "modifying part" is definitely the easy part. Creating the modifications is the time consuming part...i.e. the 3D objects and textures. Once the artwork is created, modifying xplane itself is as easy as opening WED, laying in an "exclusion zone" to erase what you dont want...trees, roads, autogen, etc) and then simply inserting what you have created or perhaps a pre-built elements from the library. I did the entire default KSEA airport in about 3 weeks, including creating a lot of the art from scratch....so it definitely CAN be done quick...the tools are there.-Tom KylerXPlane10 sceneryXPlane 10 aircraft

Hey Tom,In regards to the pre-built elements in the library, will runways and taxiways with shaders applied be included in the library. Also, would ground textures, either with or without shaders be in the library? Thanks.

[tkyler 88]

Default airport "flat stuff" like taxiways, runways, shoulders, asphalt, concrete, grass etc will all come with the default "high detail" shaders. ...the exception in the library is what it called "pavement" which are essentially multiple variations of light and dark concrete and asphalt for the purpose of creating that patchy look so typical of tarmac repair. These, as of now, do not have the shaders on them, but I am quite sure they will soon enough. This basic airport asphalt/concrete/grass really comprises the extent of ground textures included in the library...all repeating tile stuff.EDIT....oh, there will be some generic tar cracks and grunge that you can lay around the airport though..these are just little squares you duplicate all over. I will provide more size variations of these during the typical beta run where updates are common

[MikeT707 1,181]

Default airport "flat stuff" like taxiways, runways, shoulders, asphalt, concrete, grass etc will all come with the default "high detail" shaders. ...the exception in the library is what it called "pavement" which are essentially multiple variations of light and dark concrete and asphalt for the purpose of creating that patchy look so typical of tarmac repair. These, as of now, do not have the shaders on them, but I am quite sure they will soon enough. This basic airport asphalt/concrete/grass really comprises the extent of ground textures included in the library...all repeating tile stuff.

1) Ok, so just to clarify, the flat airport art objects will be in the library with shaders applied to them pretty soon, so when we build airports, we will have these "shaderized" art objects to choose from and to use with WED to build our projects. Is that correct? 2) Will the flat grass textures for airports have, or have the ability to have vegetation, like grass, weeds, etc. applied to them similar to how Orbx does in their airports? Thanks.

[tkyler 88]

1.) 90% of the flat airport art objects have shaders now. Only a few "concrete tint" art objects do not have shaders, but will soon if not already (not my area). These will be available to you with WED to build your projects2.) Not automatically applied no. Grass, weeds, bushes and trees will have to be applied separately....and currently, only basic simple trees exist. There are no grass or weeds available via default...these will have to be made custom. This may change in the future, we are talking about it internally. -Tom Kyler

[MikeT707 1,181]

1.) 90% of the flat airport art objects have shaders now. Only a few "concrete tint" art objects do not have shaders, but will soon if not already (not my area). These will be available to you with WED to build your projects2.) Not automatically applied no. Grass, weeds, bushes and trees will have to be applied separately....and currently, only basic simple trees exist. There are no grass or weeds available via default...these will have to be made custom. This may change in the future, we are talking about it internally.-Tom Kyler

That sounds great Tom. Thanks for the information. Another question for you. Is it possible that one of us from the community could create one or multiple grass textures with grass or weeds on top of the texture and have those vegetation-applied textures available in the library for use by community scenery developers?