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slait

Sudden dive bomb when landing

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Seems I've read about this before, but I don't know what the fix is. Running ASE build 649 in FSX (with Acceleration), and often when on approach at about 100-200 feet my plane will take a sudden, sharp, diving turn to one direction that I am unable to recover from. Everything is fine, sailing along the glide slope and then out of nowhere it takes a violent turn. I am running in DWC mode, have tried following the manual recommendations in disabling FSUIPC wind smoothing, editing the FSUIPC turbulence settings, and the FSX.cfg file for TurbulenceScale. Any thoughts on what causes that, and more importantly how to get it to stop? Many a lovely flights foiled by a sour ending.Thanks in advance for any help.

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Seems I've read about this before, but I don't know what the fix is. Running ASE build 649 in FSX (with Acceleration), and often when on approach at about 100-200 feet my plane will take a sudden, sharp, diving turn to one direction that I am unable to recover from. Everything is fine, sailing along the glide slope and then out of nowhere it takes a violent turn. I am running in DWC mode, have tried following the manual recommendations in disabling FSUIPC wind smoothing, editing the FSUIPC turbulence settings, and the FSX.cfg file for TurbulenceScale. Any thoughts on what causes that, and more importantly how to get it to stop? Many a lovely flights foiled by a sour ending.Thanks in advance for any help.
Turn "wake turbulence" off or way down...DJ

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Turn "wake turbulence" off or way down...DJ
And where would that be accomplished?

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And where would that be accomplished?
User the ASE "Options" button and tab "Wind Options" - the first option is "Wake Turbulence Strength"; turn it to a very low percentage <10% or 0. "Wind Shear" can also be a pain in FS - it's on the same page.DJ

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User the ASE "Options" button and tab "Wind Options" - the first option is "Wake Turbulence Strength"; turn it to a very low percentage <10% or 0. "Wind Shear" can also be a pain in FS - it's on the same page.DJ
Wow, clearly I am as blind as a bat. I looked for that setting twice before posting, and once in the manual, and still managed to miss it. Thank you for the kind assist.

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Wow, clearly I am as blind as a bat. I looked for that setting twice before posting, and once in the manual, and still managed to miss it. Thank you for the kind assist.
Sure - wake turbulence in FS is like getting swatted out of the sky with a bat. I first encountered it in ASV6.5 and it took a while to figure out what the heck was going on....DJ

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Yeah, very frustrating when you have a great flight and you don't even get the chance to nail the landing at the end. No doubt this will resolve it though.

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Even better, if you like realism, read up about wake turbulence and avoidance procedures, and leave wake turbulence effects on.

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I was nowhere near another plane when it happened the last time, so I don't think avoidance would be quite enough.

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So are you reporting a problem with wake turbulence simulation then? Are you aware that wake trails can stick around for up to 2-3 minutes? We have no reports of problems with this feature, and we just specifically tested this 2 days ago during a feature review so I can assure you it's working properly at least for many of us. If there is a problem we'd like to fix it but we need information.

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I'd be happy to provide whatever information you need to make a diagnosis. The problem is that it, for obvious reasons, doesn't happen every flight so reproducing the problem can be touch and go, forgive the pun. If indeed it was a result of wake turbulence as appears to be the case since disabling it, wouldn't a sharp dive bomb of an airliner that crashes to the ground like it lost a wing be a bit excessive? I've never heard of such a sharp violent reaction before. When it happens there is no hope of recovery. The plane is on its head before you can bat an eye. As the previous responder said its like getting swatted out of the sky with a bat.Again, I'm happy to provide anything you need to help troubleshoot, but what I experienced I would not relate to realistic by any means. The death toll in commercial aviation would be significantly higher than it is if it were.As an addendum I would like to express that despite this, in my mind, relatively minor issue I feel like ASE is one of less than a handful of add on's that are a must for all of my flying, and contribute greatly to my enjoyment of flight simming. Without the weather simulation that ASE provides FSX wouldn't be half as immersive as it is for me today. Please do not mistake my report of this issue as a dissatisfaction with the product at all. If the end resolution is to disable wake simulation all together, I can live with that and still be fully satisfied with Active Sky.

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Same wake turbulence anomally here as well. Found this thread after I experienced the excact same effect as Slait. Shut off the Wake turbulence effect, problem solved.I am also very happy with Active Sky and have been using it for years. ASA/ASE Rocks!FS9 SP1 on WINXP SP3,ASE SP3 B647 on WideFS 6.780 & FSUIPC 3.980 WideFS PC WINXP SP3

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Thanks for the further comments.Having an airliner (something 100klbs or more for example) being swatted out of the sky from unseen or unknown aircraft does not sound correct obviously. There are two components to wake turb in AS, one is the trail itself, generated from all aircraft with its overall intensity based on the weight, and dynamically adjusted to sink and fade (reduce intensity) over time. The other component is the effect and effect trigger. The effect is triggered when you enter another trail, and the intensity of the effect is based on the weight difference between the "giver and receiver" and the wake turb intensity slider.So if there are problems here, it should be isolated to one of the two components. Was a wake trail mis-generated somehow? No aircraft in the vicinity yet all of a sudden a wake trail comes from nowhere? Is the location lat/lon/elev of other aircraft being improperly given to AS, or improperly read/handled by AS? is the decay/fade or sink of the trail happening improperly, perhaps lingering infinitely? Or is the problem in the other side, where the trail is correct, but the effect is unrealistically high-intensity when it should be low intensity?We haven't any indication of a problem until these comments so I am taking the opportunity to collect further information. On all 3 of my main test systems here, with various configurations, I have tested wake to be operating as expected with B647 and B655. So right now this is a mystery.For those who suspect a problem, have you tried experimenting with wake turbulence effects, perhaps on purpose, to see how well it works in a controlled environment? One idea is to set regular 50% slider here, and first try to experience wake from your own aircraft. A steep 360 turn in a light aircraft makes this easy, if you nail it. You should get a slight buffet/effect as you roll out on your original heading, passing through your wake that you created while you started the turn. Of course the effect will also be shown on the main screen's status window, including the intensity computed (via a log entry item). Further to this, flying closely behind another aircraft is also a good test, remembering that wake trails originate at the wing tips and slowly sink. Again wake turb should be triggered appropriately, with the intensity as described, again shown as a log entry. Finally, SLEW works well, you can easily encounter your own trail this way (just back up a few feet)... the effect itself will not control the aircraft while in SLEW, but you can still see it being triggered.Perhaps testing this way for it will help provide some answers, and if there is a problem perhaps a duplication scenario can be found. Any information regarding this is appreciated.

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Hi, it will be posted soon, but there are no related changes between 651 and 655 (and 647). If you're having a problem in B647 or B651 we'd like to look at that.

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I've encountered it a few times since ASE release too. I'm using FS9 though. It happened to me Sunday at 300 ft on final. I was able to recover this one somehow. All the other times it crashed and burned. No aircraft around to cause wake turbulence. I thought it might have been wind shear. The way the aircraft behaved all the times, it was like the wing hit something. I recall it seemed the aircraft always dropped on the left side. It's happened with different aircraft at different airports. I thought maybe a scenery issue so I set up on final and flew the approach again and it was fine.

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Just a quick question, is it being considered that wake lasts a few minutes after it was "placed" there by an aircraft, and that this wake drifts, and sinks over time?Since most reports of this indicate that there are no aircraft at all nearby, I am assuming all AI aircraft traffic is being turned off? Because with any AI there is usually at least ONE aircraft nearby!What I am trying to establish is if there is possibility of misunderstanding about wake trails and their lifespan which could explain the behavior, because wake is rarely caused by an airplane that's directly in front of you within spitting distance. It's usually from an airplane that transited the air slightly above you (since wake sinks) i.e. 1 or 2 minutes prior to you.The effect everyone is describing does sound like wake, it is a rolling and buffeting effect (can roll left or right, or both). And wake encounters are always indicated in the log and status message screen. I think its confirmed we ARE experiencing wake here, with the real question being why? And that is where I am hoping to gain some information to see if there is a problem here. If there is a problem, ideas as to why include performance issues with simconnect/fsuipc (as depending on your sim, that's what is reporting ai aircraft positions), possible AI output modification/tweak per fsuipc options or other add-ons, etc. Given the very high incident rate of misunderstandings which appear as bugs, I want to make sure we cover that possibility entirely. I also want to reiterate that if there is a problem we will do everything we can to fix it.Can someone confirm they are experiencing wake as described in my suggested testing?

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I don't think that there is any doubt it is a result of wake effects as the problem disappears completely when that is disabled in the options. I too have not noticed any aircraft that stood out to me as being the source of the wake, but as you've stated it could be residual effects from aircraft that have already landed, or aircraft from crossing runways. My issue is a lot more to do with the extreme effects it has on the aircraft. Bobbing, weaving, sweeping side to side would probably fine, and even kind of cool to add to the immersion factor, but that's not what I'm seeing here at all. The aircraft veers to one side and dives like a kamikaze pilot in an airshow. It's extremely dramatic, and often completely unrecoverable. In real life nothing short of a mid air collision could result in the kind of dive bomb this effect creates.Unfortunately with the holiday season I have not had time to set up repeatable test cases, but will try to once we've past Christmas. Thank you for the responses so far.

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Hi Aaron,Have you tried lowering the intensity of wake effect in the options? If you have success with that, can you share what setting you end up liking best? Thanks!

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Hi Damian, they were night cargo flights with nothing in a 30 mile radius in TCAS and visual. I have wake turbulence set at 10%. What I'm getting when it has gone out of control was similar to US Air flight 427 around 300 agl on short final. It acted more like uncommanded rudder movements or as if the aircraft hit something.

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Hi Jeff,Ok, at 10% obviously that is not a proper effect, regardless if there was an airplane around or not. Have you attempted to experience wake in a controlled environment? Are those wake events "more proper"?Also, just curious, is anyone slewing or running a replay over their previous flight path when this happens? If anyone who is having similar troubles could please contact our support department (we haven't had any contact yet) we would love to be able to troubleshoot this and find a resolution. Logs would really help. Thank you!

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