Not seeing it, Not feeling it with X-Plane 10 I had my hopes up...

[cobrakev1526 6]

I've been an avid Flight Simulator user since I had my first copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator for my old IBM 8088, back in 1986 then came Sublogic ATP and I fell in love with the heavy irons. I've owned every version of MFS since then and including FSX. I have also owned X-plane 9 and have pay ware aircraft for it as well. My biggest frustration with FSX is how badly we have all needed for Microsoft to fix the bugs that crash your system. That's why I have tried to switch to xplane to see what I was missing. X-plane 9 was a good sim but not great. FSX was a good sim but not great also. I have found that the argument of the flight model in XP vs FSX is completely irrelevant, and I say this because of my own personal experience in the real world as a pilot. Some things I have noticed in XP is that the flight model is unstable. The physics model that is in XP-9 doesn't calculate the flight model correctly. If the physics engine is inaccurate the flight model will compound that inaccuracy. In FSX the physics model is interpreted by the aircraft models data. Therefore, if you know the data from an actual aircraft, it will be entered in and will fly exactly by the numbers with a few exceptions, according to the limitations of FSX. (ie: spins). I will say that XP-9's physics engine is better than FSX, but not by much. In order to get the real feel of flight, you have to have real controls with real forces. As hard as XP-9 and FSX try, you cannot feel with your eyes. The new word that I am getting really tired of now is "Plausible" there used to be a phrase before from Microsoft " As real as it gets" that get old to. But these are the targets of what they are trying to make there sims be. So I am forced to to now ask myself now when I fly do I want to fly a plausible aircraft or a as real as I gets aircraft. XP has some very nice pay ware aircraft that should work with version 10. Like I have said I own some. FSX has many more som are bad some good and som are absolutely incredible. Therein is the answer for me. I want the most realistic simulation as possible with a depth of learning and sence of accomplishment. This is just my opinion but for me plausible aircraft and systems won't cut it. Now who knows in the future with aerosoft and carenado and so on that this will change. But for nowFSX still has what I am looking for in that area. One of the most importation aspects of flight simulation is the suspension of disbelief through the scenery. When I was in flight school we learned that the terrain itself was a navigation device. Using a map and compose and if you were lucky enoupf to have 2 nav radios you could pinpoint yourself on the map. FSX default scenery scored in my book a 4 out of 10 for recognizable land features and scenery. XP 10 haste som amazing new visuals and objects that I only wish FSX could have had. Unfortunately the scenery is so unrecagnisable in most areas that you really can't use good VFR skills. Looking out the window is what flying airplanes are all about. XP 10 scenery look great at night but falls apart when the sun comes up. But that is once again my own opinion. For me I am looking for somthing that can replace FSX and bring back the true spirit of flight simulation back to my home. I don't want to worry about taking long flights and have the sim CTD on final Microsoft are you listening. We had a plausible sim 10 years ago and need a sim that can but open but looks the part on release. XP are you listing to. Dont get me wrong I am very hopeful for XP10 and I hope that it get better with time. FSX has been a great sim with all the add ons I have for it but it's been needing to be fixed for so long. My 2 centsCheck out my youtube page.

[Chocorua 112]

Good post Kevin, I respect your take on FSX /XP10 and can concur on many fronts. I've been monkeying around between the XP demo and FSX for a week now. Thought at first I would buy it, but discovered too many things just not right. I'll leave it at that and be glad so many are enjoying it.

[Geofa 108]

Just depends on the kind of piloting you do. If you are into heavy iron, button pushing, and watching ai traffic at major airports xplane probably won't do it for you.If you are a vfr only pilot-flying over urban cities will have few landmarks for you-but get away from cities and you will do great.If you are an ifr pilot-the rw weather in xplane blows everything away.If you are into taking off and landing a non autopilot heavy iron aircaft-e.g. GA aircraft you won't find a better experience anywhere else.If you don't like blurries and stutters you will be in heaven.If you like system failures in an unpredictable way-you will be very happy....and if you are someone who likes to fly at night you will be amazed beyond belief!I am glad like in the 1990's we seem to be going into a period of a release of many sims-true none of them is the "ultimate" as always has been the case but it sure nice to have choice, and different focus.

[cobrakev1526 6]

I should have mentioned that I like all types of flight. GA to the heavens even the gliders. Speaking of which gliding in FSX used to be boring untill somebody came out with a dynamic wind and slope engine for it called cumulus X. Now soaring in FSX is really enjoyable. Not sure if xplane has that in but I would really like to know. Remember condor?

[m_av 0]

The new word that I am getting really tired of now is "Plausible" there used to be a phrase before from Microsoft " As real as it gets" that get old to.

Yes, X-plane demands a lot of forgiveness/tolernace from the user. It is an untamable wild horse. You either enjoy the ride it offers or not. The attitude and the tantrums have muted somewhat over the past couple of years or so but it still is a wild horse.Don't fall for the current hype of the "plausible"; back at the introduction of v6 it was "leapfrog" MS FS. These words get used often enough are nothing but spin on exagerrating what's in and distracting from what it's lacking.Always keep in mind, mere words to hype a product - it is and will remain a wild horse. The choice to ride and accept what it entails and/or ensues is entirely yours !

[cobrakev1526 6]

For me I think I will adopt a wait and see with XP 10 I really do hope that it will live up to the hype and expectations of us simmer. I really want to move from FSX be it XP10 or Flight and I just saw on another post about yet another sim called Aerofly FS. The later is just in Switzerland and is only in German but they are looking to convert it to English as well. There are some great things coming out way!!!

[GoranM 3,778]

Yes, X-plane demands a lot of forgiveness/tolernace from the user. It is an untamable wild horse. You either enjoy the ride it offers or not. The attitude and the tantrums have muted somewhat over the past couple of years or so but it still is a wild horse.Don't fall for the current hype of the "plausible"; back at the introduction of v6 it was "leapfrog" MS FS. These words get used often enough are nothing but spin on exagerrating what's in and distracting from what it's lacking.Always keep in mind, mere words to hype a product - it is and will remain a wild horse. The choice to ride and accept what it entails and/or ensues is entirely yours !

"Wild Horse"??"demands a lot of forgiveness/tolerance"?"Untamable wild horse"?"It is and will will remain a wild horse"?Fairly sure of yourself aren't you?I'm curious, what aircraft are you rated on and what payware have you tried in X Plane? Or are you simply a default aircraft kinda pilot who has no payware?Surely you are not saying that the many tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dedicated X Plane users are - wrong?Not to mention the various aircraft companies (Garrow Aircraft. Icon Aircraft. Carter Copter. These are just off the top of my head) that have had their aircraft developed for x plane for actual flight tests.After everything Geof has said about how accurate at least one aircraft is, without bias, and the fact that my aircraft are at least 98% accurate in all areas of the flight envelope (stalls included), and the many reviews out there about various payware, you continue to criticize X Plane in all aspects. Even the marketing material they publish. I'm starting to doubt whether or not you really have all the previous versions of x plane. If I had that much criticism about a product, I sure as heck wouldn't buy it. Not to mention every version of it over a 10 year period.

[m_av 0]

Fairly sure of yourself aren't you?

You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Both are still opinions. I do not wish to engage in any personal or character attacks or having any dialogue with you.

I'm starting to doubt whether or not you really have all the previous versions of x plane. If I had that much criticism about a product, I sure as heck wouldn't buy it. Not to mention every version of it over a 10 year period.

Why on earth would I care what you think ? If you were me you would do this or that.That's just it. YOU ARE NOT ME !I stand by what I posted. It's an opinion based on my personal experience, expressed in a public forum. Take it or leave it FWIW. NO CHARGE.

[GoranM 3,778]

You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Both are still opinions. I do not wish to engage in an personal or character attacks or having any dialogue with you.Why on earth would I care what you think ? If you were me you would do this or that.That's just it. YOU ARE NOT ME !i stand by what I posted. It's an opinion based on my personal experience, expressed in a public forum. Take it or leave it FWIW. NO CHARGE.

The only thing I take from your last post is that you refused to answer my questions about your status as a rw pilot and what x plane payware you have.It leaves me with more than enough information that you needn't concern yourself with answering them anymore.Happy simming and have a nice day!EDIT:

It's an opinion based on my personal experience, expressed in a public forum.

Very appropriate disclaimer. Should have said that in the first place.

[m_av 0]

It leaves me with more than enough information that you needn't concern yourself with answering them anymore.Happy simming and have a nice day!

I knew you would acquire the necessary wisdom and come around to my way of thinking - ultimately.

[GoranM 3,778]

I knew you would acquire the necessary wisdom and come around to my way of thinking - ultimately.

HA!Ok, you know best.(At least, keep telling yourself that)

[Tierborn 191]

You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Both are still opinions. I do not wish to engage in any personal or character attacks or having any dialogue with you.Why on earth would I care what you think ? If you were me you would do this or that.That's just it. YOU ARE NOT ME !I stand by what I posted. It's an opinion based on my personal experience, expressed in a public forum. Take it or leave it FWIW. NO CHARGE.

I bet alot of people agree with you ... thats why you have seen a wholesale shift of FSX'ers to XPX. But when some of the "wild horses" aka gap is closed between FSX and XPX ... you will see a big user shift.Aside: some XPX'ers will be hostile toward you if you point out wome of the gaps.

[GoranM 3,778]

I bet alot of people agree with you ... thats why you have seen a wholesale shift of FSX'ers to XPX. But when some of the "wild horses" aka gap is closed between FSX and XPX ... you will see a big user shift.Aside: some XPX'ers will be hostile toward you if you point out wome of the gaps.

And some of the FSXers will be hostile when an XPer proves them wrong.Door swings both ways Tierborn.As has been proven with m_av's post.

[TheGrunt 44]

And some of the FSXers will be hostile when an XPer proves them wrong.Door swings both ways Tierborn.As has been proven with m_av's post.

What have you exactly proven in this case for example? That because you say so and many others like X-plane, so m_av was wrong and he also has to like the sim? Is that it?I don't get this XDF (X-plane Defence Forces) thing. As a matter of fact, I don't get anything else fanboyish attitudes, which usually means persons who need to defend their love child everywhere and extremely arrogantly.I must ask you Goran, why do you care so much what somebody writes here about XP, if writing is okay along the board rules (no personal attacks, swearing etc.)? I can say I don't care diddely squat what somebody thinks about FSX, XPX or for example PC vs consoles and what he writes about these things? I couldn't care less and I don't see any reason to waste energy in arguing with somebody with different opinion and trying to convince him/her that his opinion is wrong? That is just silly. You must have too much bloody time and energy to waste for something like this Somebody's opinion in this or any other forum won't kill XPX either. In a niche market like flight sims, a good product will be succesful eventually. There is too little competition for a good product to fail. This makes defending some piece of software even more silly.I have been testing XPX demo about since it came out and I must say I have to be on the same line with many criticisers. I hope XPX some day in near future get's to the point, where it has proper 3rd-party support, which is the life and soul of civilian aviation simulator. If we will see in near future addons like MyTraffic X (I was really dissapointed with XPX AI routines), better city sceneries and developers like A2A making their aircraft for XPX, thenI would be more intrerested to change my platform. Now I'm lacking all of those (and some basic features like seasons) and for some reason I get also pretty bad performance with demo. Main thing is that I would again have to invest a huge amount of money for the addons to get the XPX to the same level as my FSX and still, I would be lacking some of my favourite addons and features. I don't expect vanilla XPX to be in the same level as a souped up FSX, but there needs to be something for me in it to make new investments to XPX worthwile. Flight will eventually face similar situation, if it has no compatibility with earlier FSX addons, as I believe will be the case. Whether it will be XPX or flight, some HDR-lighting or exceptionally nice night lighting or volumetric clouds (thumbs up for these both to XPX!) aren't just enough for me to make the jump. FSX, though inferior platform, fares still well enough. Future may be different, and of course some day FSX will be totally obsolete.I hope And these are of course just my opinions

[GoranM 3,778]

What have you exactly proven in this case for example? That because you say so and many others like X-plane, so m_av was wrong and he also has to like the sim? Is that it?I don't get this XDF (X-plane Defence Forces) thing. As a matter of fact, I don't get anything else fanboyish attitudes, which usually means persons who need to defend their love child everywhere and extremely arrogantly.I must ask you Goran, why do you care so much what somebody writes here about XP, if writing is okay along the board rules (no personal attacks, swearing etc.)? I can say I don't care diddely squat what somebody thinks about FSX, XPX or for example PC vs consoles and what he writes about these things? I couldn't care less and I don't see any reason to waste energy in arguing with somebody with different opinion and trying to convince him/her that his opinion is wrong? That is just silly. You must have too much bloody time and energy to waste for something like this Somebody's opinion in this or any other forum won't kill XPX either. In a niche market like flight sims, a good product will be succesful eventually. There is too little competition for a good product to fail. This makes defending some piece of software even more silly.I have been testing XPX demo about since it came out and I must say I have to be on the same line with many criticisers. I hope XPX some day in near future get's to the point, where it has proper 3rd-party support, which is the life and soul of civilian aviation simulator. If we will see in near future addons like MyTraffic X (I was really dissapointed with XPX AI routines), better city sceneries and developers like A2A making their aircraft for XPX, thenI would be more intrerested to change my platform. Now I'm lacking all of those (and some basic features like seasons) and for some reason I get also pretty bad performance with demo. Main thing is that I would again have to invest a huge amount of money for the addons to get the XPX to the same level as my FSX and still, I would be lacking some of my favourite addons and features. I don't expect vanilla FSX to be in the same level as a souped up FSX, but there needs to be something for me in it to make new investments to XPX worthwile. Flight will eventually face similar situation, if it has no compatibility with earlier FSX addons, as I believe will be the case. Whether it will be XPX or flight, some HDR-lighting or exceptionally nice night lighting or volumetric clouds (thumbs up for these both to XPX!) aren't just enough for me to make the jump. FSX, though inferior platform, fares still well enough. Future may be different, and of course some day FSX will be totally obsolete.I hope And these are of course just my opinions

You are absolutely right!Have a great day!