I'm scratching my head on this one. Trying to program the JFK1 departure Canarsie or Breezy point climbs out of JFK but they are not listed as options on the DEP/ARR page. I am using the latest Navigraph cycle.Am I missing the obvious here?Thanks.

Yes, both climb are typically radar vectored departures. The CRI and Breezy point climb are 31L/R dep out of JFK. You never would enter it into the FMC like any RNAV departure. It uses VOR radials and DME to accomplish it. If you're familair with tuning the NAV radios or using the FMC to enter radials and DME points then its easy. I fly it all the time when JFK is departing on the 31L's. Read the chart, understand it, learn how to use the FMC/ radios if you don't already and try it out .It's real cool!!FDX706

Yes, both climb are typically radar vectored departures. The CRI and Breezy point climb are 31L/R dep out of JFK. You never would enter it into the FMC like any RNAV departure. It uses VOR radials and DME to accomplish it. If you're familair with tuning the NAV radios or using the FMC to enter radials and DME points then its easy. I fly it all the time when JFK is departing on the 31L's. Read the chart, understand it, learn how to use the FMC/ radios if you don't already and try it out .It's real cool!!FDX706

Not true, we fly the JFK1 departure Breezy point climb off runway 31L using the RNAV all the time. It's in the database, at least ours anyway.It does seem to be missing from the Navigraph database though.

Use the FIX page to create the radials and DME circles - fly using HDG SEL.

I flew the Canarsi climb all last summer but it was not in our FMS database. We usually just created a place, bearing, distance line along the CRI 176 radial. In practice we never even flew the radial. They would always give us a heading before we could even complete the turn to intercept that radial.

Not to be snarky, but......actually, who am I kidding. It's me we're talking about.Now is probably a good time to get accustomed to reading those pesky departure charts. What's in the FMC is rarely the whole story, so when ATC says "fly the ABC departure, transition/climb" you should really double check what's actually on the chart. From there, it's also a good time to get accustomed to flying the plane, as that's generally what the pilot is supposed to do. If ya look at it, there really isn't a great way to put the departure in there manually in order for the plane to fly it for you. The only legal thing you could do is what Ryan said: throw some waypoints in for reference (yes, I know this isn't real flying, but I figured I'd throw that out there).So, a little hand flying from time to time is good for ya. Like apples.In the mean time, here's the chart:http://204.108.4.16/...0610KENNEDY.PDF...and more importantly, page two, which has the narrative of some aspects not in the image on page one:http://204.108.4.16/...10KENNEDY_C.PDF

Kind of a big assumption to assume that just because one is using RNAV to fly the departure that one isn't reading the charts or familiar with the procedure.As long as you comply with the restrictions of the procedure it really does not matter what method you use.

The airspace updates in the NY/NJ area are way behind the rest of the country due to intra-agency bickering over marble piles, I suspect.The climbouts are not provided as separate routes in the NACA digital data, something I overcame back when I did sids/stars by a lot of customization.Maybe in 10 years they will achieve full RNAV departure routing like Atlanta, Dallas, Denver, and so on.

Just hit a chance to check our Navdata and sure enough the Carnsie and breezy point climb procedures have been removed. Not sure what revision did that as we used to have them. It's been a while since I've been through JFK.

The airspace updates in the NY/NJ area are way behind the rest of the country due to intra-agency bickering over marble piles, I suspect.

For the record, their airspace is ridiculously complex, so I'll give them that much, but yeah, it's somewhat disappointing. There might be a little bit of overcontrolling by the controllers, too. They're used to having control over the departures, so they don't want to give it up. I know there's a little bit of that at Potomac TRACON. Look at the SIDs from IAD and you'll find the STOIC2. It's on its second iteration and has been used only on test flights. If you file it, they just shift you over to the CAP8. Look over one more area in Potomac and you'll find the RNAV SIDs from DCA NOTAMed out (or just sidestepped by the controllers).

Not to be snarky, but......actually, who am I kidding. It's me we're talking about.Now is probably a good time to get accustomed to reading those pesky departure charts. What's in the FMC is rarely the whole story, so when ATC says "fly the ABC departure, transition/climb" you should really double check what's actually on the chart. From there, it's also a good time to get accustomed to flying the plane, as that's generally what the pilot is supposed to do. If ya look at it, there really isn't a great way to put the departure in there manually in order for the plane to fly it for you. The only legal thing you could do is what Ryan said: throw some waypoints in for reference (yes, I know this isn't real flying, but I figured I'd throw that out there).So, a little hand flying from time to time is good for ya. Like apples.In the mean time, here's the chart:http://204.108.4.16/...0610KENNEDY.PDF...and more importantly, page two, which has the narrative of some aspects not in the image on page one:http://204.108.4.16/...10KENNEDY_C.PDF

15 years of actual airline flying here on several FMS equipped multi-engine jets. They all had the Canarsie and Breezy point climbs listed in the FMS.Even when I went to corporate flying these departures were available as flyable routes.As to reading pesky charts....well I'll just leave that alone as I know your comment had positive intentions.

Kind of a big assumption to assume that just because one is using RNAV to fly the departure that one isn't reading the charts or familiar with the procedure.As long as you comply with the restrictions of the procedure it really does not matter what method you use.

I see where you're coming from, but if you've had any experience controlling on VATSIM or the like, you'd have quite a different view on simulator pilot skill. Granted, I'm in the PMDG forum, which generally has a better-equipped and more knowledgeable pilot group, but my life experience has taught me to assume the worst and hope for the best. Ask any controller in the virtual NY Area and they'll tell you how often sim pilots are actually able to fly something as simple as the EWR8 or JFK1. Those departures are found in the FMC, but they're not in there fully, so the virtual pilot sets it in the FMC and blasts off thinking the world is perfect, but the chart says otherwise. If only virtual pilots could get nailed for not observing FAR 91.103...I agree. As long as you get it right, it doesn't matter what method you use, but how do you know you're getting it right without looking at the charts?

As to reading pesky charts....well I'll just leave that alone as I know your comment had positive intentions.

Glad you can see through my sarcasm and general sardonic writing style....and no slight is meant by this, but I noticed you haven't signed any of your posts in this thread or another. They're big about that around here.Source: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/245586-you-must-sign-your-full-real-name-to-posts-to-use-this-forum-posts-without-names-will-be-deleted/

...and no slight is meant by this, but I noticed you haven't signed any of your posts in this thread or another. They're big about that around here.Source: http://forum.avsim.n...ill-be-deleted/

yikes! Thanks for pointing that out.Clay