incredibly steep decents and space shuttle take offs

[Guest]

Pax don't care about V/S unless you're changing it rapidly or flying unpressurized. Pax can't tell the difference between 6000 fpm and 2000 fpm. Your fuel tanks do though: climb and descend at optimum rates, not 1-2000 fpm ( unless it's little altitude changes, then be smooth).

I always feel fine when a real pilot post here, thanks a lot Spin.Could you please anyway elaborate a bit further the concept of fuel tanks feeling the high fpm stress ?Then, it happened to me at least twice that a plane took off in a steep ride and my stomach kicked in my throat and I was also quite scared so sometime pax feel the steep climbing angle

[Spin737 102]

I always feel fine when a real pilot post here, thanks a lot Spin.Could you please anyway elaborate a bit further the concept of fuel tanks feeling the high fpm stress ?Then, it happened to me at least twice that a plane took off in a steep ride and my stomach kicked in my throat and I was also quite scared so sometime pax feel the steep climbing angle

I was being a but tongue in cheek. The "stress" on the fuel is just that if you're climbing and descending at less that optimum rates, you'll be burning more fuel. Get to altitude quickly and stay high as long as you can.

[Tabs 2,790]

Once again, why are we discussing raw V/S as if it means anything? It does not. A 6000FPM climb is not unheard of in a light airplane, especially in cold weather. All that matters is the rate of change in the V/S - passengers feel the G force associated with that. A constant 6000fpm that's eased into feels the same as level flight - 1G. High rates of descent at high altitudes are not uncommon either, especially if you have a high CI that puts your ECON descent speed up near the MMO limit like that.

[Guest]

Once again, why are we discussing raw V/S as if it means anything? It does not. A 6000FPM climb is not unheard of in a light airplane, especially in cold weather. All that matters is the rate of change in the V/S - passengers feel the G force associated with that. A constant 6000fpm that's eased into feels the same as level flight - 1G. High rates of descent at high altitudes are not uncommon either, especially if you have a high CI that puts your ECON descent speed up near the MMO limit like that.

Ryan, personally in almost each post here in this forum I learn something new and I like it very much.I may understand you stating that 6000 fpm are not abnormal but it makes sense as well questioning if that is right or not, this way we keep on learning.Told that, if my memory is right and many times it is not, there was some arguing on the vanilla release of 737 about the landing crashes too frequent. If I recall it right it was slightly tweaked in the hotfixes changing the crash value a bit.Sometimes raising questions may lead to fine tune the product, within some others there is no needing of any fix instead.This time we are 98% sure that there is no needing of any fine tune.

[Paul Deemer 13]

One thing that really makes me wonder is why so many people are taking off in a light aircraft in the first place? You all want this realistic state of the art aircraft but you don't follow realistic procedures with the Pax and Cargo? Why take off with 1/3 pax, and limited cargo? In the real world the Airline would want to fill as many seats as possible and take along some extra cargo so they can max out their profits. If your flying light all the time all your doing is making your airline take a loss on every flight. Eventually your airline is going to go bankrupt.

[Guest]

One thing that really makes me wonder is why so many people are taking off in a light aircraft in the first place? You all want this realistic state of the art aircraft but you dont follow realistic procedures with the Pax? Why take off with 1/3 pax, and limited cargo? In the real world the Airline would want to fill as many seats as possible and take along some extra cargo so they can max out their profits. If your flying light all the time all your doing is making your airline take a loss on every flight. Eventually your airline is going to go bankrupt.

That is a nice question, I tend in fact to load lot of passengers , cargo and I like to have a decent amount of reserve fuel.Sometimes anyway the jet has to test new GPS systems and therefore only Boeing engineers are on board fiddling with their stuff. :(

[Fabo 213]

the stomach kicking in your throat is not a function of rate but rather rate change and if you change to whatever fpm gradually, the passengers wont know +6000 from -6000.edit: Sometimes it is realistic to just take 100 people 100 miles away, rather than 180 people 4000 miles away ;)

[Guest]

the stomach kicking in your throat is not a function of rate but rather rate change and if you change to whatever fpm gradually, the passengers wont know +6000 from -6000.edit: Sometimes it is realistic to just take 100 people 100 miles away, rather than 180 people 4000 miles away ;)

Yes true but have you ever experienced an abrupt fpm change f.i. from 1800 to 4800 within a blink of an eye ? I am not pointing at NGX because the weather of FSX is ridiculous but sometimes it happens and I assume that the VNAV should smooth it a bit.

[Paul_Smith 92]

One thing that really makes me wonder is why so many people are taking off in a light aircraft in the first place? You all want this realistic state of the art aircraft but you don't follow realistic procedures with the Pax and Cargo? Why take off with 1/3 pax, and limited cargo? In the real world the Airline would want to fill as many seats as possible and take along some extra cargo so they can max out their profits. If your flying light all the time all your doing is making your airline take a loss on every flight. Eventually your airline is going to go bankrupt.

In the real world, the plane is going to take off anyway as even if there are no passengers at all, the plane still needs to get to its next port of call for its next flight. e.g. Ryanair looks for 60% occupency on a route to break even, but that means for every flight that is 90% full there can be one with 30%.

[VLJ510 16]

One thing that really makes me wonder is why so many people are taking off in a light aircraft in the first place? You all want this realistic state of the art aircraft but you don't follow realistic procedures with the Pax and Cargo? Why take off with 1/3 pax, and limited cargo? In the real world the Airline would want to fill as many seats as possible and take along some extra cargo so they can max out their profits. If your flying light all the time all your doing is making your airline take a loss on every flight. Eventually your airline is going to go bankrupt.

I forgot that planes are never ferried to location empty or that they just magically appear where needed. Also with the BBJ paints many in the community re-painter have done that I've done a few NAT crossings with much lighter light loads then a airliner.Also next time my manifest only has me 1/3 full of pax I'll just wait until the plane is more full to meet your real world procedures. The plane goes when it's time to go not when 'X' amount of people are abound last I checked.

[xender 459]

But.... if i have a BBJ with a rich guy inside, 8 bags, 3 girls and a 2 hour flight? It will be very light

[VLJ510 16]

But.... if i have a BBJ with a rich guy inside, 8 bags, 3 girls and a 2 hour flight? It will be very light

And a metric ton of cash money!

[ryanbatc 12,857]

Alright since this topic talks about CI - what do BBJ's use? When I fly the -800 I use 1/3 fuel, and usually light payload. I've been doing a CI of 88. And I get these quick/fast climbs/descents. What should I be using? Should I just weigh down the plane more and put a CI of like 30?

[Rey 11]

I hope you all are aware the CI isn't fixed for the entire flight..

[Jet_Airliner 0]

Alright since this topic talks about CI - what do BBJ's use? When I fly the -800 I use 1/3 fuel, and usually light payload. I've been doing a CI of 88. And I get these quick/fast climbs/descents. What should I be using? Should I just weigh down the plane more and put a CI of like 30?

I use CI zero (airline fixed for all routes). No difference. But I enter 280/.780 and .780/280 for climb and descent--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I posted the answers to the vomit thread a bit before.I had the same issue with V/S.Tabs telling that it alright to have 6000fpm in light plane. I say that I had it in 800 with something about 3/4 load.I must argue and say again, that its not normal to have such a big V/S. I am not taliking about rate of change yet. Just a constant V/S.You said that some pilot recorded the video with such V/S, but you didn't show the video. I already told that flew many times in cockpit. You never get above 4000. Maybe just on takeoff stage or fast descent with spoilers due to traffic you can get 4000-4500 biggest.Secondly is rate of change when for example you choose LVL CHG and your speed is 5-15 knots different from the one on the MCP.The autopilot moves the yoke as crazy as hell and chenges V/S from 2000 to 6000 just in 2-3 seconds.In real life you don't get this.And Iknow it from experience. In reall life its very smooth.