I wonder what you all think about using FSX addons in P3D and how various developers are handling this.Most FSX addons (planes, scenery) can be used in P3D without any problems other then that you have to manually move some files around.Some developers are supporting P3D for free: they simply don't mind if you use their addons in FSX. Other go the extra mile and even release installers (for free) that enable you to install their products in P3D without having to manually edit stuff!On the other side are developers who want you to pay (afaik now usually a small amount) for using their addons in P3D otherwise you are breaching the EULA and acting illegaly, resulting (I guess) in getting no support or maybe even get sued. By paying a small fee you (probably) get an installer to help you use the product in P3D (sometimes this installer only simply links your FSX files to P3D).Do you think you should be able to use any FSX addon you paid for already in P3D without extra cost? Do you mind having to pay for a new installer or just a new EULA? Will having to pay for using FSX addons you already paid for change your view on P3D? Or don't you mind at all unless the fee is low?I am curious how you all think about this and how this may affect the future of P3D.

Interesting Jeroen, I must admit I had no idea some devs were allowing free port over to P3D. Then if this is the case, surely there cannot be anything more than a very small cost involved for the dev, if any. Like you, I support IMO probably the best scenery company in the simming community, but when I heard about a licence fee for every addon, I have to say I was surprised. When I worked out what the potential cost could be, then I cried a little! Correct me if I am wrong, but we're not talking about recoding FSX addons, or writing a new code, or completely redesigning a scenery package, as I understand it we are talking about an installer, yes? If this is the case, then ...? And the justification for extra dosh for evrery scenery package?? As I mentioned elsewhere, the work has been paid for. The design, research, development, marketing, etc, that has been paid for with the initial purchase and in a digital form there is nothing else involved. No packaging, no disc, printed material, nothing. The only thing we are buying is the product, which comes as a digital download. So effectively to charge the consumer an additional fee simply to use what they have already paid for on a different platfom, seems, erm, well.... think it's something worthy of discussion and I'm sure there are some very interesting opinions regarding this. If the devs have considerable expense involved for allowing us to use their addons in P3D, then I have no problem with that whatsoever. However, if that was the case, how come some devs are allowing a free installation? I'm sure some devs can justify the charge and I hope that is the case. Either way, I wish everyone involved with P3D all the very best.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by Rockliffe

I had no idea some devs were allowing free port over to P3D.

Aerosoft released a free P3D-installer for (amongst others) their brand new Bronco, free of charge. People could have installed the Bronco into P3D manually, like they can install any plane, but Aerosoft was so nice to release an installer that does it for your, for free.

Correct me if I am wrong, but we're not talking about recoding FSX addons, or writing a new code, or completely redesigning a scenery package, as I understand it we are talking about an installer, yes? If this is the case, then ...? And the justification for extra dosh for evrery scenery package??

I've seen video's of people using that scenery (including addon airports) in P3D, so... everything works out of the digital box. There is no NEED to let people pay in order to get things working. That scenery developer created an installer that links the FSX files to P3D so you don't have to install everything all over again, and that's nice, and for that you get charged a small fee, but it's not that you have the OPTION to use that installer or to do it yourself: you HAVE to use that installer otherwise you will be breaching the EULA. What you buy is a license: it's even called that way. So you are simply paying in order to use what you already have.

If the devs have considerable expense involved for allowing us to use their addons in P3D, then I have no problem with that whatsoever. However, if that was the case, how come some devs are allowing a free installation?

I guess that in the case of Aerosoft they simply changed the lines that lead to FSX into lines that lead to P3D... Doesn't seem like something that costs a lot. I am no programmer though. But the fact that they released it for free indeed shows it doesn't cost much. Aerosoft is a company that's in it to make money, like any other company, so if it would have cost a lot, they would have theor customer pay for it. But as I said, because almost all FSX addons work in P3D without problems, there is no NEED to charge customers a fee for using the products in P3D.You could say that the developer who sells a license with an installer that simply links the FSX files to P3D had to take some more time to figure it out, also because they use a program to activate sceneries, but still... even without that installer you are able to use their scenery in P3D, so there was no NEED for it. If they gave you the option to choose for the installer (pay) or to do it yourself (free), it would be fine, no problems, but now it looks like another case of milking the cow.

Hi,The developer will have to rework the installer to work with P3D, this takes time and time is money. They will also have to offer these updated (ported) products to the community, if offered by download, additional server space will be required, it may also cost the company in regards to the additional downloads for the new ported product.I do not see any problem with a company charging a REASONABLE fee for a ported product, after all they are in business to make money. I will also say that I am very appreciative of the companies that have offered these ported products for FREE and will continue to support these companies by opening my wallet when new products are released. THANK YOU

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

Agree with what Mike just said. As long as they keep the price resonable. Ill gladly pay a small fee to get a P3d installer for an FSX product I already own.I hope more companies follow FSDT, Orbx and Aerosofts lead. Like it or not, I think P3d is the future of our hobby. Even if some addon companies decide not to support it, It wont matter, as long as they support FSX, Theres a good chance it will work in P3d.Rob

I agree to a point fellas, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there should be no cost involved. Like you, I too have no problem with covering whatever costs are involved for the developers. BUT... just how much or how little cost is involved for the developers. If Aerosoft can provide an installer for free to their customers, then why cannot Aerosoft's lead be followed by the developers who are charging a fee. Sure $6, $8 dollars is not going to break the bank, but if you have invested in 40 or 50 addons, probably more for some, and you are going to be charged that kind of money for each one, then all of a sudden P3D maybe doesn't look quite so attractive... especially when you've already bought the product. Like I said previously, I'm not pointing fingers or demanding an argument on the subject, I just think it's a point that many of us are talking about and I don't think it's out of line to bring it up for debate. Well, it's Jeroen who started the ball rolling :(

Hi Howard,I believe the company should be covered for any costs incurred by porting the product, nothing more. This should not be an opportunity for a company to take advantage of its customer base. I also believe if anyone was to manually move said addons from FSX to P3D thereby not increasing any cost to the developer, there should be no cost increase to the end user.What's the difference if I'm using the product in P3D as opposed to FSX. In my opinion, none.Another item to look at is the fact that any of these companies now supporting both FSX and P3D may be increasing their customer base, customers who have no intention of using FSX and are loyal P3D users. By offering this product to both parties their may be an increase in funds thereby removing any cost to the original FSX customers.Again, this is JMHO...

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

It's great that some companies provide installers for free. It would be good if all of them did for sure! Orbx have been spoken about in particular and I don't think I have an opinion about it. I can see it from both angles. One where you already own it and as a hobbyist you don't see why there should be a cross platform license that you have to pay extra just to use the content. Much like how the RIAA would have you buy a CD and not be able to rip it to play on the ipod without paying more. Orbx do have to write additional code and it does cost them money but they are not doing it especially for fsx users. They are doing it because they have chosen p3d to be one of their platforms of choice going forwards. Because it is a cost they need to incur to support the platform they don't have to charge existing users. Then there is the other side, they are in business and they need to recover costs. There is no doubt by using their installer you are using software that you did not buy and cost additional man hours to develop outside of the $$ you paid for your scenery. What they are asking is fair and if you look at what you get from orbx they have a lot of stuff they do give away for free - stuff that matters, extra scenery. In the end you have to respect each companies decisions even if you dont agree with it. P3d is so close to fsx that you 'technically' can install it yourself and not pay extra, if a company had decided to charge you full price again to use their product on p3d I suspect a lot of people would justify this option. I think orbx's option is fair, its certainly not out of line with how most xplatform licenses work but it is cheaper, and of course, free is better.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by JasonHarris

Hi Howard, I also believe if anyone was to manually move said addons from FSX to P3D thereby not increasing any cost to the developer, there should be no cost increase to the end user.Again, JMHO...

My point exactly Mike.

Theres a good chance it will work in P3d.

Hmmmm, I wouldn't count on that. As soon as P3D supports DX11 things will change... Also for current FSX addons that do work with P3D. We all know (I think) that a lot of addons (and even FSX itself) have problems with the DX10 preview! Textures not showing up, things disappearing, etc. It could well bee that when P3D goes DX11 a lot of FSX addons need extra work to get them working in P3D. Hm, maybe we then have to pay for a DX11 upgrade fee for every addon...? (Just kidding... although....)

I also believe if anyone was to manually move said addons from FSX to P3D thereby not increasing any cost to the developer, there should be no cost increase to the end user.What's the difference if I'm using the product in P3D as opposed to FSX. In my opinion, none.

Yes, but that's what's exactly happening. Various products DO work in P3D but you are not allowed to do that. You have to pay for a license, even if you decide to manually install things. I can understand it if you have to pay for installers and stuff, it DOES make things easier, but if you can install things yourself, manually, simply by copying or linking files, I also feel that shouldn't be a problem. The problem is that this IS a problem for some developers. Orbx clearly stated that using their software without paying for a side by side license is illegal. If you do that, you will get into big problems. And as Howard said, no matter how small the fee is, this can add up to a nice amount of money. As I said before: to me this is simply milking the cow and getting easy money over the back of customers (if that's the right expression).P.S. If in the future it takes extra work to get things working in P3D (for example as I said with DX11), then it's another story, of course. Then it is logical that you have to pay something. But not when a simple copy and paste action of software you already paid for can do the trick. (And by that I of course mean copying and pasting on the same computer which is your own... I am totally against illegal software!!!)

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by J van E

I'm beginning to think along the same lines Jeroen.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by Rockliffe

Hi Jeroen,I only own one product from ORBX and it is not installed in P3D. Guess if I ever did decide to install the product into P3D, they can come to my house and serve me. Would be interesting to see the end result of a lawsuit for a product worth less than $100.00.It would also be nice if we were given an option of selecting DX11 or DX9 so we can continue to use the older addons that do not support DX11. Its something I'm going to mention on P3D's site right now. I hope they will be able to accommodate this particular request.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

Always make sure the EULA allows the material to be ported over to Prepar3D. I've done this by simply contacting any of the developers where this is unclear.Most developers are creating custom installers for no additional charge. The only one's I see charging is when a re-write of the code is required. There are programing differences in some instances between Prepar3D and FSX and when code must be re-written, charging for this is completely fair in my opinion. Orbx and MyTraffic 3D required code re-writes for all features to function.

Hi,I have no problem covering any cost incurred by the addon developer to port any addons I own. I just don't want to be taken advantaged of by the porting process.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

Sure, absolutely, I agree. Providing that is in fact the case.