737 NGX won't start engines

[quadraspleen 7]

Hmm, well, ctrl-e may be construed to be the bar here, but it could have been anything. I've lost count of the number of single line (in some cases WORD) replies (yes there are posts with the word FCOM as the reply) to simple, could be answered in a second by one of the know-it-alls on this forum. heck, I even try to answer some myself and I'm a know-it-not!My point remains, and I fail to see how purchasing a £40 FSX addon entitles one to suggest that they have "shown up to the big league". I repeat, as did Buddy: T h i s i s a G a m e. Like it or not.It is manufactured and sold by a software company. It is not accpetable in any form for any hours toward PPL certification (as are some simulators). it is operated, in the large part, by non-pilots (oh, how they denied it and started showing us their quals!). There are a lot of "kids" for want fo a better word, who use it. My ten-year-old boy for instance. He's just starting off on the trike, and he wants to fly NGX. i haven't told him to go and read the FCOMs; he'd laugh ta me and say: just show me how to start it all up and set up a route and I'll figure it out. he can do that because, as Buddy and I keep pointing out: it's a game; he can do that, same as I can practise stupidly fast and high landings, and slidfing down the runway with no gear. Does that make me frivolous, or small-time league?? If he'd been asking valid questions in any forum and got cast-off replies, I'd be cheesed about it. Politeness costs nothing my old grandad used to say.I know there are a lot of real-life pilots who use FSX, but please, to say it in any way entitles one to start behaving like Alan Sugar...I am about half way through my PPL, and not once have I thought "jeez, glad I was able to do that crosswind landing at PAKT, it's made me a much better pilot". If I was able to say a single thing about how FSX has helped me in my nascent career(?!) as a pilot (even PPL) then it would be in understanding navaids and systems. Nothing else translates; especially not the way the thing actually flies! (obv I'm not talking about NG as I've never driven one in RL!) But I have flown lots in PA28's and beleive me, when I first went in, all barry big bollocks about the fact that I'd flown 000's of FSX hours in every concievable SEP plane going, the instructor took me up and made me nearly throw up in a series of steep turning dives over the Purbecks. I shut up after that.Anyway, it's just no trouble to just give ppl pointers rather than make them feel ill at ease..I wonder how keen the OP will be to post any more "stupid" questions?And I'm talking about FSX above, NOT NGX..NGX is slightly less of a game, but it still runs inside one!And for you Yanks, for Alan Sugar read Donald Trump :D

[quadraspleen 7]

And one last thing (he says...) If the answer to it all is: read the FCOMS; why do we even have a forum? Surely we all know it all because we've read the FCOMs!Speaking of which and a little OT, can somebody with lots of time on their hands please do an FCOM section map to PDF pp map?! (I'd do it but I'm washing my hair tonight)bestjake

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Hmm, well, ctrl-e may be construed to be the bar here, but it could have been anything. I've lost count of the number of single line (in some cases WORD) replies (yes there are posts with the word FCOM as the reply) to simple, could be answered in a second by one of the know-it-alls on this forum. heck, I even try to answer some myself and I'm a know-it-not!

Referencing the manual is a valid response, as it helps point the individual to the source of the information. There are TONS of things said here on the forums that are only half-true or not true at all because someone misread someone else's post and then posted an improper procedure, unknowingly. Ever play telephone? Information here is secondhand at best. "Read the Manual," or "FCOM" may seem unhelpful or crass, but only if you consider yourself above reading it yourself.As I made the point above, more help is better (specific page references), but any help is still help, despite peoples' judgment of the response (which is essentially a holier-than-thou/holier-than-reading-the-manual approach that some accuse others of - just saying).

My point remains, and I fail to see how purchasing a £40 FSX addon entitles one to suggest that they have "shown up to the big league". I repeat, as did Buddy: T h i s i s a G a m e. Like it or not.It is manufactured and sold by a software company. It is not accpetable in any form for any hours toward PPL certification (as are some simulators). it is operated, in the large part, by non-pilots (oh, how they denied it and started showing us their quals!). There are a lot of "kids" for want fo a better word, who use it. My ten-year-old boy for instance. He's just starting off on the trike, and he wants to fly NGX. i haven't told him to go and read the FCOMs; he'd laugh ta me and say: just show me how to start it all up and set up a route and I'll figure it out. he can do that because, as Buddy and I keep pointing out: it's a game; he can do that, same as I can practise stupidly fast and high landings, and slidfing down the runway with no gear. Does that make me frivolous, or small-time league?? If he'd been asking valid questions in any forum and got cast-off replies, I'd be cheesed about it. Politeness costs nothing my old grandad used to say.

Research first, then feel free to put forth your educated answer:Flight Simulator is actually valid to count towards license hours, provided you have the FAA (or other governing body, in your case) vet the application.http://www.redbirdflightsimulations.com/If you don't get my reference there, Redbird sims actually use FSX as a base, licensed properly, and approved through the FAA. The only thing preventing most from doing this at home is that you need an instructor with you, and you have to pay the FAA to certify your individual application, which costs a lot. So, it's valid as a sim, provided you use it correctly, which is why the FAA (or other governing body) has to certify you've set it up properly. That is to say, the FS on your computer is the same one in some simulators now. The only difference is the FAA gave the other guys a piece of paper saying "you can use this for hours toward ratings and so on."It's a simulator, thus the name of the product. It simulates in accordance with the definition of the word 'simulation/simulator/simulate' as well. Simulators can always be abstracted to fit the idea of 'game', provided the operator treats it as such. I can treat a Cessna like a big real life toy (game) all I want, but I probably won't get too far. Does that mean that it's improper to treat the NGX like a toy? No. Can you? Sure, but you just wasted your money. You can go treat a Ferrari like a toy too. More power to ya, but good luck keeping it around for future enjoyment.The NGX is the big league of add-ons here because it simulates the real aircraft to a greater degree. That's what it's here for. You're certainly welcome to use it as a toy, just as anyone here is certainly welcome to criticize your actions - politely or otherwise. Such is life. The issue goes both ways: you don't like the criticism, they don't like people treating the plane like a toy. Who's right? Depends on who you ask.

I am about half way through my PPL, and not once have I thought "jeez, glad I was able to do that crosswind landing at PAKT, it's made me a much better pilot". If I was able to say a single thing about how FSX has helped me in my nascent career(?!) as a pilot (even PPL) then it would be in understanding navaids and systems. Nothing else translates; especially not the way the thing actually flies! (obv I'm not talking about NG as I've never driven one in RL!) But I have flown lots in PA28's and beleive me, when I first went in, all barry big bollocks about the fact that I'd flown 000's of FSX hours in every concievable SEP plane going, the instructor took me up and made me nearly throw up in a series of steep turning dives over the Purbecks. I shut up after that.

This is partially why you dismiss the sim so much. Once you get up into training for your instrument rating (if you decide to), your idea will change, and that's the fundamental reason real pilots hammer on FS so much. It's not that it's invalid to teach you about flying, it's that it's nearly useless (and partially detrimental) to the student PPL pilot, because at that stage you're just learning how planes fly and handle. Sims are primarily used for procedures, not understanding handling/dynamics. Note that sim training doesn't really happen at all until after the rating (yes, some syllabi include at least an hour in the sim for PPL, but it's not required).Real pilots hammer on FS so much because these kids manage to fly in Flight Sim and think that it's somehow transferable, in regards to technique, when it's not (try practicing stalls in the default Cessna). For that reason, they understate its advantages in order to dissuade people from thinking it's 100% accurate.

Anyway, it's just no trouble to just give ppl pointers rather than make them feel ill at ease..I wonder how keen the OP will be to post any more "stupid" questions?

I absolutely agree. I didn't like that people responded like that because now we all look bad. I was just providing a counterpoint to those who think simple "It's in the manual and tutorials" responses are almost as bad as "OMFG AYFS??? RTFM!!!"

[scandinavian13 5,192]

And one last thing (he says...) If the answer to it all is: read the FCOMS; why do we even have a forum? Surely we all know it all because we've read the FCOMs!

It's here to help explain the content. Just because you read the manual doesn't mean you understand it. Would you argue we should stop using books in classrooms? That's essentially where you're going. Is it arbitrary for teachers/professors to have the students read the chapter for a basic understanding before showing up to class? I'd argue no. If the students can get a basic understanding from the book, the discussion in the classroom is more educated. Likewise, instead of answering 1000 posts of "I can't get the plane to do X," we'd all be talking about the finer aspects of the simulation. I don't mean that to be elitist. I'm just saying we'd all have better discussions if we all took a second (okay, 15 min) to read a little from the FCOM from time to time.

Speaking of which and a little OT, can somebody with lots of time on their hands please do an FCOM section map to PDF pp map?! (I'd do it but I'm washing my hair tonight)

There's a version of what we have with that feature, but it costs more to license. CTRL+F works just fine. Dan (Turbine777) pointed out some other way that allows searching multiple PDFs (files in general) as well, but I forget what it was....and making fun of people is what you're arguing against, isn't it? If you're going to take a hard line stance against being mean, you should follow your own words.

[quadraspleen 7]

Research first, then feel free to put forth your educated answer:Flight Simulator is actually valid to count towards license hours, provided you have the FAA (or other governing body, in your case) vet the application.http://www.redbirdfl...imulations.com/

My bad; I actually asked this question of my first instructor and got a different answer, so I stand corrected. Are you sure that applies in the EU/UK? Anyway, i was making the point about it not really translating to actually flying a real plane, as as you correctly point out, most trainee's who've flown lots of FSX hours will, and I did, spend the first hour in my first lesson looking at the instruments and being told off for it!I do not dismiss FSX. I am obsessed with it. Ask my wife and kids! I am not dismissing anything other than being unhelpful. I totally agree with you regarding the FCOMs; I am reading them all, slowly, and re-reading them. I still do not think that qualifies me to be flippant if I (think) I know the answer to a question I think I know the answer to. If I have no idea, I'll shut up.Nor do I advocate using NGX as a "toy". It's not that easy to do so; I've tried. It seems to behave as I'd imagine a real large A/C to. I am using it as a deeply immersive simulation (I am aware of its meaning :) ) But, and it is a big but FSX IS still also a game; were it not, it would not have the simple missions it has, that those over in the MS Flight forum are bemoaning Flight for daring to have. Coins, anyone?I think you have misconstrued my replies as somehow defending the kind of questions Jack speaks of above. No; I am merely advocating courtesy and politeness, as I see you are also. we can split hairs all day long about FSX; it is what it is. We (all of us) make of it what we do. That's because we can..I treat it as if I'm a RL NG driver and my missus thinks I'm totally mad.bestjake

It's here to help explain the content. Just because you read the manual doesn't mean you understand it. Would you argue we should stop using books in classrooms? That's essentially where you're going. Is it arbitrary for teachers/professors to have the students read the chapter for a basic understanding before showing up to class? I'd argue no. If the students can get a basic understanding from the book, the discussion in the classroom is more educated. Likewise, instead of answering 1000 posts of "I can't get the plane to do X," we'd all be talking about the finer aspects of the simulation. I don't mean that to be elitist. I'm just saying we'd all have better discussions if we all took a second (okay, 15 min) to read a little from the FCOM from time to time.There's a version of what we have with that feature, but it costs more to license. CTRL+F works just fine. Dan (Turbine777) pointed out some other way that allows searching multiple PDFs (files in general) as well, but I forget what it was....and making fun of people is what you're arguing against, isn't it? If you're going to take a hard line stance against being mean, you should follow your own words.

Sorry, I don't follow? I was making fun of myself for being lazy!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I think you have misconstrued my replies as somehow defending the kind of questions Jack speaks of above. No; I am merely advocating courtesy and politeness, as I see you are also. we can split hairs all day long about FSX; it is what it is. We (all of us) make of it what we do. That's because we can..I treat it as if I'm a RL NG driver and my missus thinks I'm totally mad.

I had. Thanks for the clarification....and don't worry. My flatmates have a good laugh at my expense from time to time for the same reason.

[quadraspleen 7]

Last word on this from me, and we can all shake pinkies and make up.To the OP: get some of this down you: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/348342-ngx-cold-dark-to-preflight-complete-updated-and-extended/ (spesh the bit about emergencies; it's fun) And read the FCOMS as well. They are really good - but can be really boring. Like anything worthwhile, really.. Plow on...then come back in about two months and tell us that you are now self-planning multiple-stop round-the-world flights ;-)bestjake

[flyguy172 0]

why do you guys turn everything into a flame war

[scandinavian13 5,192]

why do you guys turn everything into a flame war

Who?

[twasono 3]

Hi,You could have just said to TS without being sarcastic:"PMDG airplane does not use CTRL-E to start the engines. It is a realistic simulator add-on. Please read the manual on how to do it. There are also plenty video tutorials you can find on youtube.com"Tri Nugroho

[Tabs 2,790]

That's enough. There's going to be bans if I see this kind of flame war/personal attacks again. It's not the first time I've seen it out of several of you either.