I suggest you disable those arbitrary limits completely. It seems that the programmers of PAX softwares failed to account for the fact that people dont feels V/S, which is a common misconception.Actually also a common misconception in first look, somewhat similar, is when you look at motion sims, like this racing sim

- people expect the sim just to turn, and to bank or pitch just as much as a car does (which is little) - but in reality this feels really as it should.

Just checked and there doesn't seem to be a way to disable these limits in XPax but what I can do of course is to set them to very high values that will never be exceeded which effectively would be the same thing as to disable them.

I suspect every real-world airline must mandate their B738 pilots fly in the derated CLB-2 mode (on the N1 limit page) because that's the only way I've found to get this PMDG aircraft fly more like they do in real life (around 1800-2000 fpm in the climb). And it makes sense, it probably results in less maintenance cost.Go to flightaware.com, click on Live Flight Tracking/Browse by Aircraft Type, and you can see a whole bunch of real-world B738 vertical climb and descent profiles.Interesting how they're all around 2000fpm and not the 4000-6000fpm the PMDG VNAV will do by default. So I think you should always select CLB-2 to be more realistic.

This is an interesting thing you point out, I'll check all my 737 cockpit DVDs I have trying to see what CLB mode they normally use and what the resulting climb rate is.

I suspect every real-world airline must mandate their B738 pilots fly in the derated CLB-2 mode (on the N1 limit page) because that's the only way I've found to get this PMDG aircraft fly more like they do in real life (around 1800-2000 fpm in the climb). And it makes sense, it probably results in less maintenance cost.Go to flightaware.com, click on Live Flight Tracking/Browse by Aircraft Type, and you can see a whole bunch of real-world B738 vertical climb and descent profiles.Interesting how they're all around 2000fpm and not the 4000-6000fpm the PMDG VNAV will do by default. So I think you should always select CLB-2 to be more realistic.

As a controller, you should know better...I know I've said that before. The idea that everyone does 1800-2000 is absurd....and it's ASEL/IR, by the way. IFR is the flight rules, not the rating.

As a controller, you should know better...I know I've said that before. The idea that everyone does 1800-2000 is absurd.

You'd be surprised how consistent it is. And as a rule of thumb, around 2000 is much, much more typical especially in winter than the 4,000-5,000 fpm this sim will happily do way up in the flight levels, which I have never seen on a B738 in real life. (That would really be memorable, and would probably cause the Mode C readout to show XXX because the system would assume it's a bad mode C!)

...and it's ASEL/IR, by the way. IFR is the flight rules, not the rating.

Actually, my license says "INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE" so that would make it IA, not IR, wouldn't it? Or Instr. Airpl.? Or Instrum. Air.? Geez, who cares. Calm down.

You'd be surprised how consistent it is. And as a rule of thumb, around 2000 is much, much more typical especially in winter than the 4,000-5,000 fpm this sim will happily do way up in the flight levels, which I have never seen on a B738 in real life. (That would really be memorable, and would probably cause the Mode C readout to show XXX because the system would assume it's a bad mode C!)Actually, my license says "INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE" so that would make it IA, not IR, wouldn't it? Or Instr. Airpl.? Or Instrum. Air.? Geez, who cares. Calm down.

Hi Gabe,First rule when climbing is always full thrust and control speed with pitch. If that gives you 4000fpm then cool. It's not uncommon at all to see high rate of climbs. Especially here in the winter times when the air is cool. Jet engines love cool air.I just tried the 737-700wl with a brake release weight of 51000kgs. I did not notice anything unusual about the climb rates. yes, they were about 4000fpm in clean config below FL100, but that's to be expected. Also note I did the test with TOGA power and CLB power at 1500 AGL.Just to compare the A320 FCOM says in ISA at 56000kgs from Brake release to FL100 takes 12nm and 3minutes which gives an average of about 5000fpm.And again from brake release to FL390 takes just 21min and covers 134nm with an average of 1800fpmit's simply a matter of power to weight :)Kind Regards,

You'd be surprised how consistent it is. And as a rule of thumb, around 2000 is much, much more typical especially in winter than the 4,000-5,000 fpm this sim will happily do way up in the flight levels, which I have never seen on a B738 in real life. (That would really be memorable, and would probably cause the Mode C readout to show XXX because the system would assume it's a bad mode C!)

What do you mean by "especially in the winter?" The summer is when climb performance suffers, with higher density alts. As I've mentioned to you before, the only time I've seen a "bad" Mode C was with an F/A-18 on an unrestricted climb, and they push some very high numbers on the vertical speed (10000-50000/min depending on the loadout).I think you're a controller at N90, right? So, what you're telling me is that on a good day, people are barely pulling off the climb profile of the GLDMN3? TRMBL is 18nm from the dep end of the runway, and I have to cross it AOA 9000. Running some rough numbers there, with an average of 220 knots across that phase, 18nm/220knts = 4.91, 9000'/4.91min = 1832ft/min. Just to hit the minimum crossing altitude, I have to use what you're considering just under the norm (2000). So if the FAA Chart Division being optimistic when they provide the 12000 max (that would be 2444ft/min)?

Actually, my license says "INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE" so that would make it IA, not IR, wouldn't it? Or Instr. Airpl.? Or Instrum. Air.? Geez, who cares. Calm down.

I'm calm. I was simply pointing it out.

What do you mean by "especially in the winter?" The summer is when climb performance suffers, with higher density alts. As I've mentioned to you before, the only time I've seen a "bad" Mode C was with an F/A-18 on an unrestricted climb, and they push some very high numbers on the vertical speed (10000-50000/min depending on the loadout).I think you're a controller at N90, right? So, what you're telling me is that on a good day, people are barely pulling off the climb profile of the GLDMN3? TRMBL is 18nm from the dep end of the runway, and I have to cross it AOA 9000. Running some rough numbers there, with an average of 220 knots across that phase, 18nm/220knts = 4.91, 9000'/4.91min = 1832ft/min. Just to hit the minimum crossing altitude, I have to use what you're considering just under the norm (2000). So if the FAA Chart Division being optimistic when they provide the 12000 max (that would be 2444ft/min)?I'm calm. I was simply pointing it out.

I was at ZLA but left the agency for a much better career (in ATC software).You're right, 3-4K climbs do happen below 10K feet, but I was talking the much longer climb to final altitude once above 10K. B738's will do 1500fpm (Cactus) up to 2500 (Southwest) but in no case anybody does 4000 fpm like with the default PMDG. So it's clear all airlines are doing the derated climb.Also I forgot why we are arguing here, so maybe we're actually on the same page on this. Not trying to cause conflict... cheers!

In real world flying in Gulfstreams, a climb rate over 3000 fpm or a descent more than 2000 fpm is my threshold for passenger comfort, so unless required for obstacle/threat/ATC reasons, I would generally select V/S climb at 2500 fpm until passing 10,000 ft, at which time aircraft performance usually mellows out enough to go back to a VNAV climb at max Climb EPR.No pilot I know would take a lightly loaded aircraft of any type and blindly fly a VNAV profile at 5000+ fpm...that's a deck angle over 10 degrees, and it feels like a moon shot in the back. Just because the jet can do it doesn't mean you should.OTOH, I blasted out of Sarajevo in a G-5 when things were still a little bit on the hot side there, and pegged the VSI at something well over 6000 fpm. My passenger was a 4-star general USAF fighter pilot...pax comfort wasn't a problem, and he was fairly impressed with what the Gulfstream could do. Heck...*I* was impressed with what it could do!

think you're a controller at N90, right? So, what you're telling me is that on a good day, people are barely pulling off the climb profile of the GLDMN3? TRMBL is 18nm from the dep end of the runway, and I have to cross it AOA 9000. Running some rough numbers there, with an average of 220 knots across that phase, 18nm/220knts = 4.91, 9000'/4.91min = 1832ft/min. Just to hit the minimum crossing altitude, I have to use what you're considering just under the norm (2000). So if the FAA Chart Division being optimistic when they provide the 12000 max (that would be 2444ft/min)?

Not to add fuel to the fire, but...The steepest part of the climbout on the GLDMN3 is making KIWIE AOA 2500. It requires a climb gradient of 562 ft/nm. This shouldn't be a big deal except that numerous pilots have forgotten to look at the gradient, hit 1000' AFE and accelerate. On a hot day, doing that makes it nearly impossible to hit that restriction. The rest of the climb out requires a gradient of 494 ft/nm. Those aren't even close to the steepest climbout requirements I've seen, but again, on a hot day with a full load to MTOW everyone has to really pay attention. This departure was used by our training department for checkrides throughout 2011 because of the attention needed to maintain the required gradients.I've hit climb rates well over 6000 ft/min up to altitudes of 12,000 MSL. It doesn't happen all the time, and with normal loads and OATs, it's usually more around 2000 ft/min. Company's do tend to push pilots to derate whenever possible because it does increase the life of the engine. Pilots still have that final authority to go full thrust if they choose to.