Well the issue is that lowering wages leads to a compromised work force. It does take skill and talent to operate an aircraft. The people with that skill and talent are smart people. If they research a career when they are 18 years old and find out what it takes to become a pilot they will more likely say NO WAY. After the miracle on the Hudson, Captain Skully Sullenberger went to great lengths to drive this message home. Chris is saying the same as well in his recent posts.In North America there was a recent accident with Colgan Air Flight 3407, in that investigation a few questionable practices in regards to training, flight tests and competency of the pilots. This is exactly the type of thing to avoid.I hope that American Airlines can strike a balance in operations and safety as they restructure, and I believe they will. They have been around a very long time, and it is in everyone’s best interest that they stick around for a long time as well. If part of that restructuring means fewer pilots and routes, then I hope the ones that they keep are payed more then their fair share.

What's a compromised work force? Are you arguing that if two pilots with identical training, qualifications, and experience the one paid more will fly more safely?

What's a compromised work force? Are you arguing that if two pilots with identical training, qualifications, and experience the one paid more will fly more safely?

What I have said already is that anyone with the skill and inteligence that it takes to become a pilot will consider another career based on the salaries being paid. Chris has said this as well and also posted you a video. I think the point being driven here is who would pay $40,000 to $50,000 for Flight training, only to work for less then $22,350 a year.My good friend trained as a commercial pilot and is now a chartered accountant as he got married and had children, he knew he couldn't raise a family on a pilots salary. He hates being an accountant but he did what he had to do. Their are many many others that turned away from aviation as well. That is a gain for other career fields as the better talent is going away from Aviation and into other careers.What is left behind is a situation like I've said with Colgan Air Flight 3407, a Pilot that had failed his tests many times before he finally passed. As long as you eventually pass then all good. But not good for the 50 fatalities.Edit: I am sure you can find many people on this forum that love aviation and would want nothing more then to be a pilot, but can't due to the cost it takes to become a pilot and the low salary it pays...The cost to reach the licensing to become a regional pilot can run anywhere from $40,000 to $50,000, when you get there you can expect to earn less then $22,350 a year. In my POV something has to change.

Edited February 7, 201214 yr by ytzpilot

What I have said already is that anyone with the skill and inteligence that it takes to become a pilot will consider another career based on the salaries being paid. Chris has said this as well and also posted you a video. I think the point being driven here is who would work for less then $22,350 a year when they can do something else.

AS long as pilots are prepared to work for the salaries currently on offer then those will be the salaries offered. The fact that they are, suggests that there is no shortage of pilots otherwise salaries would be bid upwards.

So should doctors be paid less as well? Their level of responsibility is way less than a pilots because they hold thousands fewer peoples lives in their hand than a pilot does.

AS long as pilots are prepared to work for the salaries currently on offer then those will be the salaries offered. The fact that they are, suggests that there is no shortage of pilots otherwise salaries would be bid upwards.

I think what is missing here is MGH is over in the UK where pilots there can expect to earn around £30,000 a year. The Situation in the USA is a bit different then that as the salary expectation is already half of that.I think this has been a foolish argument because if Salaries in the UK were now reduced to £10,000 to £15,000 a year then their would be a very different situation in the UK. The USA is currently being faced with this problem. MGH just lives on the wrong side of the pond and doesn't see it.

Edited February 7, 201214 yr by ytzpilot

So should doctors be paid less as well? Their level of responsibility is way less than a pilots because they hold thousands fewer peoples lives in their hand than a pilot does.

There is no should in relation to salaries. As I said earlier, people are paid what they can persude others to pay them. Doctors earn more than pilots because that's what they can get others to pay them..

I think what is missing here is MGH is over in the UK where pilots there can expect to earn around £30,000 a year. The Situation in the USA is a bit different then that as the salary expectation is already half of that.I think this has been a foolish argument because if Salaries in the UK were now reduced to £10,000 to £15,000 a year then their would be a very different situation in the UK. The USA is currently being faced with this problem. MGH just lives on the wrong side of the pond and doesn't see it.

Pilot's salaries in the UK couldn't be reduced to £10,000 to £15,000 a year because they wouldn't accept the job at that salary. If they would, don't you think the budget airlines would have forced them down to that level by now?I suggest the wrong side of the road is the one where pilots are willing to work for such low salaries. As you've said, they could get better jobs.

Pilot's salaries in the UK couldn't be reduced to £10,000 to £15,000 a year because they wouldn't accept the job at that salary. If they would, don't you think the budget airlines would have forced them down to that level by now?I suggest the wrong side of the road is the one where pilots are willing to work for such low salaries. As you've said, they could get better jobs.

That is it exactly. In the USA this has already happened unfortunately. In New Zealand where I work now the situation isn't much better, same over in Australia. I still think £30,000 a year is already too low for the UK (considering the cost of living). Try buying a house in London or Manchester on £30,000 a year and raise a family, not an easy task by any means. Goes to show how much someone would want to be a pilot as it is tough to make a living out of it. Increasing salaries opens up the talent pool for the airlines as people would turn back to Aviation.Also take a look at the cost of a flight from London to New York in 1979, and compare that to today. Airfares today are almost three times cheaper than they were in the late 1970s. I wouldn't care so much seeing a slight increase in airfare to pay the crew a proper wage, but this is just my POV and may not be shared by others.Cheers

Edited February 7, 201214 yr by ytzpilot

That is it exactly. In the USA this has already happened unfortunately. In New Zealand where I work now the situation isn't much better, same over in Australia. I still think £30,000 a year is already too low for the UK (considering the cost of living). Try buying a house in London or Manchester on £30,000 a year and raise a family, not an easy task by any means. Goes to show how much someone would want to be a pilot as it is tough to make a living out of it. Increasing salaries opens up the talent pool for the airlines as people would turn back to Aviation.Also take a look at the cost of a flight from London to New York in 1979, and compare that to today. Airfares today are almost three times cheaper than they were in the late 1970s. I wouldn't care so much seeing a slight increase in airfare to pay the crew a proper wage, but this is just my POV and may not be shared by others.Cheers

Why are pilots in the US prepared to work for such low salaries?Average earnings in the UK are about £25,000. That means half the people are earning less than that. So £30,000 is above average and an airline pilot can expect to earn more than that with time.You might be be prepared to pay more but the success of budget airlines shows most people aren't.

Why are pilots in the US prepared to work for such low salaries?

It all began with the Airline Deregulation Act that was signed into law in the USA back in 1978. Ever since then things like Salaries have gone down over time. Aviation in the USA has been reformed as it doesn't have the government regulation found over in Europe. This is what happens with a free market unfortunately.Captain Skully Sullenberger makes for a great example as the industry he started working in when he was young is so very different today. He has recently retired and his message when he retired was asking for reform. His salary had been cut by 40 percent, his pension, like most airline pensions, was terminated and replaced by Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp making his pension worth only pennies on the dollar.What it comes down to is the Pilots in the USA don't have a choice, or a regulated industry to back them.

http://www.shinyjetsyndrome.com/

It all began with the Airline Deregulation Act that was signed into law in the USA back in 1978. Ever since then things like Salaries have gone down over time. Aviation in the USA has been reformed as it doesn't have the government regulation found over in Europe. This is what happens with a free market unfortunately.Captain Skully Sullenberger makes for a great example as the industry he started working in when he was young is so very different today. He has recently retired and his message when he retired was asking for reform. His salary had been cut by 40 percent, his pension, like most airline pensions, was terminated and replaced by Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp making his pension worth only pennies on the dollar.What it comes down to is the Pilots in the USA don't have a choice, or a regulated industry to back them.

So should doctors be paid less as well? Their level of responsibility is way less than a pilots because they hold thousands fewer peoples lives in their hand than a pilot does.

In the USA due to deregulation, everything is a lot cheaper. You can go get a meal and stuff yourself silly for a few dollars and in Australia you need to spend $50 to do that.Medical Professionals really deal with lives. Airline pilots do not 'hold the lives of the passengers' in their hands. If that was the case then Airline Pilots would have to be paid less than taxi drivers as people die more frequently in automobile accidents.A Doctor has to deal with life and death every day. A pilot does not. Even when all engines flame out, it has been proved with an A330 AND a 767 that they both glided to an airfield. And then the 767 that was hijacked, there was quite a few survivors (Africa coast) after it crashed into the Ocean. The pilots were over-ruled by dumb hijackers, so obviously they aren't responsible.A Doctor may have to tell the family of a patient that the patient's heart gave up during an operation. The pilots of an aircraft are merely driving it.In the US, Domestic Pilots are merely bus drivers. The job is still enjoyable but that is a fact of life.And with the use of modern technology to assist pilots, I don't see the workload as being necessary to pay them like astronauts or test pilots.Someone will always disagree with me.Cathay Pacific pay their pilots very well (as does Emirates I think) but their pilots have to perform. If they are late for work, it can result in instant dismissal, even for a first offence.Daniel

You might be be prepared to pay more but the success of budget airlines shows most people aren't.

Funny thing is that there are a lot of people flying LCCs that pay more because they didn't research. I wish I could find the article I was reading but it gave a figure that flying on a LCC on average costs people somewhere around 5% more than a legacy carrier because of added fees or hidden surcharges.

Do you think they should live in poverty?

Funny thing is that there are a lot of people flying LCCs that pay more because they didn't research. I wish I could find the article I was reading but it gave a figure that flying on a LCC on average costs people somewhere around 5% more than a legacy carrier because of added fees or hidden surcharges.

Regardless, in Australia the deals offered by LCCs are wild. From Melbourne to Sydney some deals offered $29 flights.The LCCs are designed to offer basic services only, so if you do want the services of a full fledged legacy carrier on a LCC, you may end up paying around the same.But he is right Chris, the popularity has proved who are the winners here.Now we have another problem. China and the Middle East are massively flooding the market with seats and they have the money to bankrupt the Western carriers.Big changes are ahead. We have to accept the fact that : We compete or we lose.And you know what compete means. Look at the UK, where BA consistently has trouble from unions.Easyjet and other LCCs are conquering the market share. If the Middle Eastern carriers can get in the legacy European market there, BA, AF/KLM would be doomed. http://www.jetstar.com/au/en/special-offersDaniel

Edited February 8, 201214 yr by IAF747

Minimum wage in New Zealand is now going to $13.50/hr. So if you worked a 40 hour work week that would be $28,080 (or $23,454 USD). This also includes 11 paid public holidays, 20 paid holidays and 5 paid sick days as that is in accordance to New Zealand law. So that is $23,454 USD a year including 36 paid days off.A regional pilot in the USA can make under $22,350, which is less then minimum wage in New Zealand, Wouldn't get 11 public holidays (more like 5), wouldn't get 20 paid holidays (more like 10) and wouldn't get any sick days. I think I would rather work at McDonalds in New Zealand then work as a Regional Pilot in the USA.Something doesn't add up and things need to change.

Edited February 8, 201214 yr by ytzpilot