You people also realize that they were operating fairly under the old way of airline operations, by not filling for bankruptcy or taking the governments money after 9/11. Their CEO was actually a very good guy but under their current operating contracts they couldn't make it.

This is why QANTAS formed subsidiary Jetstar and is now teaming up with Japanese companies to operate foreign carriers. Goes offshore.Daniel

Working from bottom up;If I was one of the passengers on that A380 I would want the best pilot available, no matter the cost.You don't state your age, but imagine you have worked to get to a certain point of accomplishment and at a "magical numeric value" the world decides you no longer have stated value, but instead are now worth 1/2 what you were before. How are you going to pay for your hypothetical daughter's college education?Next time you go to see your Doctor or Dentist ask them how long they have been out of med school. If it's more than two years I hope you'll advise them that you won't be returning, as you want to give the "fresh out of school" medical professionals a chance. Best of luck when it comes time to fill that cavity! or need a bypass operation

You don't state your age either.....As your point is purely empty rhetoric I won't comment as it is not applicable.Daniel

And passengers need to realize that they are flying nearly the speed of sound at the edge of the inner atmosphere and that rates should be more than the cost of a bus ticket.

Are you saying there's a correlation between fares and safety?

Are you saying there's a correlation between fares and safety?

I thought he was at least implying a correlation between flight crew wages & safety, which seems a reasonable link to make. Large corporations always argue that they have to pay an annual fortune to their CEOs in order to get the best people for the job. Of course CEOs don't go broke when their companies do, whereas incompetent pilots commonly die along with their passengers & crew if there's a fatal crash due to pilot error.

How are you going to pay for your hypothetical daughter's college education?

No need -- she's going to be a trolley dolly from 18-25, then 'settle down'.. :(

Edited February 7, 201214 yr by Raindance

thought he was at least implying a correlation between flight crew wages & safety, which seems a reasonable link to make.

Are you saying that a pilot on a lower wage is less safe than one on a higher wage - that being on a lower wage make him more likely to make a pilot error?

Are you saying that a pilot on a lower wage is less safe than one on a higher wage - that being on a lower wage make him more likely to make a pilot error?

Well self-preservation will always be a motivator for pilots so far as safe practice is concerned, so it isn't just money.However, obviously one cannot draw a correlation in x-y co-ordinates between income and pilot error. You appear to be taking a reductionist view of what I said.If an airline, or any other company relying on highly-skilled employees, wants the best people, they need to pay the sort of remuneration that will attract the best people. I thought that was a generally accepted principle. Naturally there is the competitiveness of the market in highly-trained employees to take into consideration, but I'm sure I recall Ronan (apologies for any missing diacritics) of Aer Lingus here mentioning in some past thread or other that middle-eastern airlines are presently offering pretty good salaries for flight crew.

In today's economy, with airlines cutting back, no carrier really needs to compete for pilots. Since many of them are unionized, the link between performance and salary is diminished, while the value of seniority increases. It is a profession where seniority and experience have tangible value, so it's not entirely a bad tradeoff.Still, there is an imbalance when some aircraft are captained by a guy making mid-6-figures, while they're sharing the airspace with a "regional" crew making only 20K and living at home with their moms.

If an airline, or any other company relying on highly-skilled employees, wants the best people, they need to pay the sort of remuneration that will attract the best people. I thought that was a generally accepted principle.

That's a big "if", which depends on how best is defined.Does it mean that companies dont want average people, or even above average people?

That's a big "if", which depends on how best is defined.Does it mean that companies dont want average people, or even above average people?

They want exceptional people at hamburger wages.

They want exceptional people at hamburger wages.

And if they can get them why not?

And if they can get them why not?

Do you think they should live in poverty?

Do you think they should live in poverty?

How many airline staff (who are what we are talking about) are living in poverty or are are even literally being paid as little as a "hamburger" employee?

Poverty level in the United States is $22,350

And if they can get them why not?

You would seriously feel comfortable putting your life at the hands of a pilot that makes the same wages as a fast food employee?.The first thing that happens when the industry isn't paying its fair share is the skilled people required will leave to another career, leaving questionable candidates to fill in the available positions. Why would anyone with the skill level it takes to be a pilot continue to pursue that career if the wages are under the poverty level. They would pursue something else instead.Shall I take my truck out to a Home Depot and find a few illegal immigrants looking for work and train them to be a pilot for ya. Would you feel comfortable with that......I am sure they would love the job, but I couldn’t guarantee the standards can be maintained.

As long as the pilot is properly trained and certified I don't how much he is paid.In Europe I invariably fly Easyjet or Ryanair even though I know they both pay lower salaries than the legacy airlines.There's no rule that says, for example Pilot Salary = X * McDonald's salary where X > Y. We are worth no more than we can persuade an employer to pay us.What you do with your truck is up to you.

Edited February 7, 201214 yr by mgh