ETOPS

[denver69 0]

Hi,I am trying to get realistic with my transoceanic action. My question is a few fold.Is there any good flight planning software for FSX that will calculate the critical point(s) and the ETP's as well as the regulatory criteria with fuel from these points to the enroute alternates?AlsoHow do we set up the FMS to have these points available along the route?Short of having a bizzilion charts layed out across my bed and doing this all manually to get the latlong I would like to do it the easy way like the dispatchers do.Thanks!

[tutmeister 719]

I don't have all the answers for you, but one portion of my long-haul flight planning involves checking Great Circle Mapper, as they have successfully implemented all the ETOPS rules so it will display alongside your route. Learning how to plot your route isn't too difficult. Here is a quick example of an ETOPS-180 flight in a 777-200ER:http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=KLAX-YSSY&E=180&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=540x540&PM=*&EV=410&EU=kts

[559AS 11]

I'll do this in a nutshell as I've got yard work to do, and my wife has allowed me a short break.You are required to plot an EEP, CP and EXP, and enter them into your FMC as you said above. You really need a Plotting Chart to do this for the NGX world, and its required to use one in the real world for both pre-flight planning and enroute awareness. Now, your EEP which is the start of your ETOPS segment is the point that you are beyond 60 minutes from a suitable landing site. Normally your ETOPS qualified dispatcher would calculate these points for you for your printed flightplan, but if you can calculate your time by distance, speed and winds, then you should come close to a proper EEP/CP/EXP for your route.Your CP or equal time point is when you are just as it suggest..... at an equal time (not distance) from a suitable landing sites departure/ arrival. Remember this includes your alternates too. This point may not exceed 180 minutes from an suitable airport.EXP is when you are within 60 minutes of a suitable landing site. I say suitable, because its not based on your actual departure/arrival airports, but any airport able to more or less handle your 737 at your weight and preformance.So, if you can calculate these points on your route using distance, speed and winds...etc, then you would have what you need.Now, setting up these points in the NGX.Normal procedure is to build a custom waypoint via the NAV page in the FMC/CDU, but this is not currently possible in the NGX. So to meet the same requirments,1. Build your flight plan in the route/legs page like you always do.2. After you finish your route, calculate your EEP, CP, and EXP as described above, and plot on a chart where they will fall on your route.3. In your LEGS page, enter in the latitude/longitude coordinates for each point where they should be per your route. The FMC will automatically name them WPT01, WPT02 and WPT03 once you enter them. They will show up in the LEGS page and on the ND as WPT01....etc, so be sure to do them in order. The only requirement we can't accomplish is naming these waypoints EEP, CP and EXP as required by ETOPS regs, but these manually entered waypoints accomplish the same thing. Once this is done, I always go into the FIX page and enter WPT01, WPT02 and WPT03 so that the little green circle will form around each one to stand out on the ND for crew awareness.Enroute requirements,APU MUST be running with the GEN available for use while in the ETOPS segment (EEP to EXP). We require the APU to remain running from engine start until EXP.You are require to preform a Fuel Crossfeed valve check during the last hour of flight. Just open and close.You are required to complete 10 minute plots after each waypoint crossing while in the ETOPS segment. This is easy to do. After crossing each of the flight plans waypoints, wait 10 minutes, then capture your lat/long coordinates in the POS 2/4 page.....FMC Position. Just click the L1 button to record it in the scratch pad, then plot it on a chart. It should land on your route line, if it does not, you may have NAV drift and you must investigate the cause.OK, said way too much.... Probably way more then you need.

Edited February 20, 2012 by 559AS

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

If you go to FLIGHTAWARE.COM, you can find routings for every airline departing and arriving from / to US fields for international routes. Example; UAL952, a 763, departing from KIAD at ~1900 to EDDF, arriving ~0900 the following day:SWANN V268 BROSS J42 RBV ACK KANNI N37B BANCS NATU MALOT NATU GISTI LIFFY UL975 WAL UM16 DOLAS UL603 SOGPO UT149 OTSOP T149 LIPMI T150 ROLISInput that real flight plan into your FMC, and away you go (don't forget to save it!!!)Forgot to add (given that you are in the 737 forum, you can get routing for short haul, long haul and everything in between there too, in the U.S. and to Canada and Mexico, the Caribbean, etc.

[MrPlaneDriver 41]

Hi,I am trying to get realistic with my transoceanic action. My question is a few fold.Is there any good flight planning software for FSX that will calculate the critical point(s) and the ETP's as well as the regulatory criteria with fuel from these points to the enroute alternates?

Not that I'm aware of, but keep an eye on this: http://www.pfpx.com/It's from the same developers of TOPCAT. They posted a sample of a flight plan sheet for transatrantic flight, with ETOPS-related points and everything. It was scheduled to be released last Xmas, but they decided to keep improving and add a few features to it. It might be released somewhere in the first semester of 2012.

[simbio 56]

On Simmarket you can find a guide for etopshttp://secure.simmarket.com/d-sim-the-767-long-haul-and-etops-guide.phtml

[denver69 0]

Hey thanks Ryan, that was very informative. Whithout the chart it is ifficult to get the lat/long. Flightaware will as I know of, not give you their EEP,CP and EXP on their flight plan but it is good for routing in general.I was looking into Flight Operations Center. It looks like it will do this for you and produce the lat/long of these points but reading reviews it sounds like it may be a poorly laid out program. Might be worth a look though.Now the one from the makers of Topcat looks very promising. Since it is a sim it would be very nice to be able to have a program do all this for me. I'll have to look to see if any other FSX flight planners might do this.Thanks

[kittyatyi 3]

"Normal procedure is to build a custom waypoint via the NAV page in the FMC/CDU, but this is not currently possible in the NGX"

 

Let's hope SP2 will add this function!

[MartinBeauchemin 0]

I had the very same question as you a while ago. I asked it to somebody at Virtual Westjet and this is what he replied:

 

*There's an explanation for ETOPS and WATRS. The WATRS (Western Atlantic route system) region is a complex, high traffic area that is comprised mostly of fixed routes with a significant number of crossings. There are two dominant traffic flows in the WATRS region. One is between North America and the Caribbean, Bermuda, and South America and the other is between the Americas and Europe. So that's what it is. Anyway here's what you should know for ETOPS and WATRS flights*

 

As a person who very much enjoys ETOPS and WATRS flights. I can certainly help you out. I assume you are fimilar with the ETOPS basics?

 

ETOPS

ETOPS Entry Point (EEP)

Marks the beginning of the ETOPS segment and is the point where the aircraft is no longer continuously within 60 min flying time of an adequate airport at one engine cruise speed.

 

ETOPS Exit Point (EXP)

Marks the first point where the aircraft is continuously within 60 minutes flying time at one engine cruise speed of an adequate airport for the duration of the flight.

 

You can add a simple step to your preflight procedures and enter a 60 minute range ring around your adequate airports in the FMC. Use 394nm. Under the FIX page, Enter your destination and departure airports in LSK1. CYVR & PHNL for example. This will create additional FIX pages, one for each you have entered. Enter enter your other adequate airports such as CYYJ, KEUG, KSFO, PHOG. Enter "/394" in LSK2 of each airport page you created. You now have a green circle 394nm / 60 minute range ring around those airports and you now can visually see your ETOPS EEP & EXP on the ND. I highly suggest reading up on the functions of the FIX page within the FMC in your NGX manuals. This function of the Boeing FMC alone makes Airbus pilots very envious. FCOM vol 2 11.42.57. Very handy for drawing radials, distance, and all sorts of stuff on the ND.

 

Basically the main thing you need to do is run the APU from before departure right up until your ETOPS exit point. This is required on ETOPS since the 737 is not equipped with a RAT (Ram Air Turbine) and the APU may not start above FL250, it will run but it might not start. Squawk 2000 in oceanic airspace and you need to do a cross feed test in the remaining hour of the flight as well. Also there is a fixed CI of 0 for ETOPS.

 

 

WATRS

Western Atlantic Route System procedures I dont believe are implimented in either VATSIM or in the rhelm of flightsim in general. Requires a quite indepth understanding of RVSM and RNP-10. And involves setting and checking RNP and NAV accuracy,verifing the aircrafts Navigation Capability by means of GPS and IRS, utilizing HF frequency communications, and the the use of SELCAL. Only the latter of which is implimented in at least SB4 and it sounds cool too.

 

Basically you would do all those checks just before entering WATRS airspace, set RNP .10 and once you enter you can leave your squawk code on its last assigned code. From there your just left with position reporting.

 

 

ETOPS, WATRS, and Oceanic position reporting

 

Reports shall be made at each flight planned waypoint in such format

Callsign

Position

Time Over

Flight Level

Name and ETA of next point

Proceding waypoint

 

"San Francisco, WestJet 216 position"

ATC reply

"WestJet 216 ZURIC 1030, FL370, Estimating ZALLE 1120, ZINNO next"

 

Hope this helps!

 

[kittyatyi 3]

This was very useful, thank you! Just a question, should the Cost Index be 0 for the entire flight or only for the ETOPS segment of the route? If the latter, then my question is, can we just simply modify the CI value in the midair?

[MartinBeauchemin 0]

Youre welcome! :-) That is a very good question. I would assume that they keep it at 0 for the ETOPS segment and then you could change it but I'm not a 100% sure.

[kittyatyi 3]

I would probably set the "normal" CI and change it to zero for the ETOPS segment of the flight, let's say, at EEP, and set back to the "normal" value at EXP Setting it to zero right from the start would make no sense if the ETOPS segment starts let's say many hours after takeoff, why to fly the pre-ETOPS segment on CI value of zero. But I might be wrong, I just guess. So I would probably set my normal CI and change to zero for the ETOPS segment. However, I am unsure whether it is possible to manipulate the CI value inflight, I will test it on my flight from Toronto back to Port of Spain:-) It has a quite long overwater segment, where you are more than 60 minutes from any suitable airport for a distance of 300-400 miles.

 

I have already modified my checklist and saved an alternative "ETOPS" checklist which I can use on such flights. I added all the elements that you mentioned, such as the APU to be left running until EXP, the Squawk to be set 2000 (I guess it has to be done prior to EEP) and the crossfeed test at EXP.

 

My other question is related to the APU. I understand it has to be ON but should the APU BLEED and the APU GEN also be on, or those are switched off as usual?

 

Thank you for the clarification!

[Jack_C 1]

We set the CI to 0 on the ground. Then you manually enter climb, cruise, and descent speeds in manually. As for the apu bleed/gen leave them off/disconnected. The apu is just to be left running untill needed.

Alsothe RNP for WATRS isn't .1 as stated above. It should be 10.

The ETOPS/WATRS procedures aren't that difficult. Its when you have to alter course due to weather, etc and you can not get a hold of AIRINC to get an amended clearance.

JackColwill

[Jack_C 1]

 

EXP is when you are within 60 minutes of a suitable landing site. I say suitable, because its not based on your actual departure/arrival airports, but any airport able to more or less handle your 737 at your weight and preformance.

 

So, if you can calculate these points on your route using distance, speed and winds...etc,

 

The EEP and EXP are based on still air. So the distance never changes for the NG regardless of winds. Winglets is 394nm and without is 388nm.

 

JackColwill

[kittyatyi 3]

Thank you for the info Jack!