Freedom of Speech, freedom to express thoughts, right or wrong.

[Geofa 108]

Actually I think the policy is pretty consistent across the forums but one has to view it from a position of history.When FSX was released the forums went crazy, there was bad behavior galore, and then when things would finally begin to settle down, a group would come in and stir it all up again ruining the fun of simming for many. Seems kind of silly now that FSX seems to be the majority sim now..It was obviously decided to not let this happen again.When Xplane 10 came out a few months ago a tightening was also done there for the same reasons. Now it is looser as things have settled down.The pre flight forum was shut down before the release because it was heading the same direction of when FSX was released.The flight forum is right now tightened for the same reasons. It will also eventually settle down, and then things will be loosened.Reminds me of a wise thing an older friend once told me about raising kids. He said raising kids is just like fishing-sometimes you let them out-and then other times you have to reel them in. Chase called it dynamic-same thing-different word.Perhaps the question should be why does the release of a new flight sim ( which should be a good thing) make such necessary?

[meshman 109]

Maybe I can "fill in some of the blamks" with respects to Ian's (hcornea) comments?Ian is part of a payware development team that produces products for the U.S. and the Oceania area, though he does not carry an orange Commercial Banner to so indicate his position in the community.There is an unofficial support forum here at Avsim for those payware products.One member of the moderation staff here at Avsim watches over the Flight forum and the unofficial support forum.Some comments in the unofficial forum are less than flattering towards policies of the payware developer. These types of comments may or may not be tolerated in the Flight forum, whereas in the unofficial support forum they are accepted.That about cover it, Ian?Now from what I can gather, the unofficial support forum came about because of the level of moderation introduced in 2012 at the payware site. Many of the participants of the unofficial support forum were banned or had their posting abilities severly reduced, Consistency is a hard term to define, isn't it?And Ian, the comment about the advertising banner bought by Microsoft and how it may influence the actions of those who volunteer their time and effort is rather a cheap shot, IMO. Any concerns, valid or not, are diminished when coupled with petty innuendo. Some sites give the appearance of pandering to the payware community for the sake of advertising or having products listed in their stores. I cannot recall Avsim ever going down that road.

[Jean-Paul 167]

Thanks Meshman. Well spotted.

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

I did not delete your post-but many have needed to be. When FSX came out there was similar mayhem- how silly in retrospect. In those days there was only one option-banning.

------------------------------------------------------------Geofa, I asked for a direct response from you. You gave it! With much respect, and thank you. I was hoping that this was going to be your reply.... in the negative. It turns out....it was. Relief. Safe move, for you and your loved ones!Mitch

Mitch,It is me you are looking for. I deleted your post. The Flight Forum is intended to be a safe forum for those choosing that platform to expand their flight hobby in exactly the same way the FSX forum is intended to be a safe forum for FSX users. Your post was not helpful whatsoever in the pursuit of that principle. Instead it simply added considerable fuel to the fire of controversy, after all, you are a good writer when you are fired up and you can land some pretty hard punches.I will not discuss the details of the content or the relative merits of whether you expressed your thoughts that time closer to the reasoned, or to the emotional argumentative end of the spectrum, for that is a matter of opinion that might vary among its readers. My best judgment was that it was out of place and out of sorts for what it said and how you said it. It is extremely hard to moderate when friends like yourself become the moderated, but I can not always protect those I like from themselves.Mitch, your dispute is with me, not AVSIM, not Geofa, no one else. I know you disagree with my decision just as strongly as I disagree with you forcing me to make it. Be that as it may, I was not acting in my personal regard whatsoever but trying to help make some kind of dialing down of the rhetoric so that some kind of peace and sanity could be restored, however briefly. Although I am very sorry to hurt a friend, and I really am feeling badly, I do not apologize for doing what I felt then, and still feel now as being what I had to do.This is not a matter I am willing to discuss further, for to do so is chasing the wind. I remain respectful of you and your opinions and enjoy reading them when they are in the right place at the right time. Yesterday what you wrote, in my opinion at the time I read it, was neither. I hope that when the dust settles you will grant me the grace to be able to do the best job I can, imperfect as I am. That is the last I will speak on this matter. Peace.Kind regards,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------I invited the administrator to please identify himself/herself that deleted my post moments after it was created inside the Flight Forum. Stephen, you stepped up to the plate and did so. You gave your reasons for deleting my personal opinion of Flight. I asked for that explanation as well. You complied., not fully to my satisfaction, but nonetheless, you complied. I won't respond beyond thanking you for having posted that is was you...., quote: 'who I was looking for...'. Thank you for doing so, Stephen.Regards, and peace, back to you.Mitch Edited March 4, 2012 by Sesquashtoo

[Airbrakes 0]

Allow me to throw in my 2 cents:A online forum is not the best place to practice free speech. Time and time again, the maturity of forum members show when they can't handle a opposing opinion without getting their panties in a bunch. Sites that allow 'free speech' have gone down to the sewers. They slowly become the most hostile forums on the internet. When I browse a discussion board, I don't want to read endless pages of arguments. Especially on sites like this where there is no place for that kind of stuff.

[IAF747 8]

My belief in 'Freedom of Speech' is that there is a time and a place.....but not here.I also think that we are all guests on these forums and they have rules in their house.When I am a guest in someone's house I never feel like I have the right to say what I want because not only is that disrespectful to the owner of the house, also the owner of the house may kick me out and not welcome me back again.Therefore I wish to respect the rules of the house when I am visiting here, and pay my respect back to the owner by purchasing from his store from time to time.Cheers

Well said Matthew, well said!! +1 to you........

[hcornea 4]

the comment about the advertising banner bought by Microsoft and how it may influence the actions of those who volunteer their time and effort is rather a cheap shot, IMO

Lance, if there is a policy, and that policy has been established by those who pay for and run the site, then it is somewhat naive to suggest that policies are going to independent.The fact is, that if you accept money from a company or entity, you are beholden to them in one form or another. If you do not have advertising arrangements with a company, then there is no such pressure to appease your sponsor.It is a well documented behaviour of advertisers to withdraw their content if a: site / TV program / radio show has content that they dislike. This is how large companies exert pressure. Companies that accept advertising are aware of this.I am bemused that in one Avsim forum a several page "rant" thread perists unabated, whereas any similar thread in Flight! forum would be locked pronto. Hence my entry into this thread to offer those observations (This thread was started by others, I might add) BTW, if this is the policy, then lets call it and move on, but quasi-independent status doesn't wash.With regard to the question of "innuendo", as you noted I simply observed the new banner. Avsim will stand by the observations of those who use the forum, so the forum users can "draw their own conclusions", as you did. We are all unlikely to draw the same conclusions, but that is life.The question of consistency that you raised also goes to Forum "purpose", and what the forum puports to be. You have already implied that Avsim is entirely independent in content and moderation. The original point of this thread is clearly a question in that vein.As for an Orange banner, I've never been offered one. This is a hobby for me .. for my amusement, entertainment and challenge. This latter point oft gets lost.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

As for an Orange banner, I've never been offered one. This is a hobby for me .. for my amusement, entertainment and challenge. This latter point oft gets lost.

You have one now, and intimating that AVSIM has some nefarious agenda regarding advertisers, any advertisers, is a guaranteed method of having the door shown to you. As you agreed to when you signed on here, there is no such thing as freedom of speach here (for all the obvious, to most anyway, reasons). As for a policy, I will use the "our house" analogy; we can have different policies for different rooms, veranda, patio and garage... If you don't like that, feel free to spend your time elsewhere.EDIT: All of this assumes that we need or want a policy for every room. We're not "neat freaks" so dotting every I and crossing every T isn't necessarily "our thing". But we do know wrong when we see it.

[hcornea 4]

Thankyou for clarifying that you have different policies for different subforums, Tom.

.... if this is the policy, then lets call it and move on ...

That was what I was alluding to. It just required someone in charge to say it.My apologies if I have insinuated that the advertising revenue has had any influence on the formation of those policies. Thankyou for clarifying your indendence on that matter also.