Flight Game or Sim?

[Richdre 0]

See here as well for adjusting the trim on the stick.http://forum.avsim.n...ol-sensitivity/

Thanks for the link. I took out the repeat and while I was there I lowered the sensetivity just a bit. The joystick works much better and I'm now able to trim for level flight. .

[Buckster 0]

definately still a flight sim

[japascoe 98]

Yes, but does different CG affect flight model? TOW is not only variable in loadsheet.Weather themes are nice (beside ugly fair weather one), but as I said before, we do not know what exactly is simulated in that atmosphere.Checklists are great, I think that interactive system can be used for much more than just checklists. For example flight training.In FSX you have great learning center, in FS2004 too and in FS2002 you have PDF book.I think it really doesn't matter is it certified or not. btw XP is great sim.

The CG definitely affects the flight model in Flight, just try trimming the Icon and then making a large change in throttle setting; you'll see the effects of not having your thrust line passing through the CG in action. Whether the CG is fixed or moves depending on your loading is a different question; one I don't know the answer to.

[newthog 0]

See here as well for adjusting the trim on the stick.http://forum.avsim.n...ol-sensitivity/

thanks to all! I took the best of both worlds approach (at least for me) - left yoke trim as is, and assigned up/down arrows on keypad for my 1 degree instruments - now I'm able to hit that sweet spot!

[n4gix 4,968]

there is a good reason if xplane is FAA Certified and all the rest are not.http://www.x-plane.com/pro/certified/

That is not only a red-herring, it is also misleading. The X-Plane software (in fact no software no matter who made it!) is not "certified," as the linked article makes perfectly clear. Furthermore, Redbird (and a number of other companies) has had a fully certified, full-motion training device using FSX for its core software for many years already.In fact, it was the very existence of these certified similators (that were technically in violation of Microsoft's EULA for FSX) that moved MS to spin off FSX into the original ESP product, which has now been licensed to Lockheed-Martin and their Prepar3D product.

from xplane site:However, the software available for about $80 at X-Plane.com is almost identical what is found in the $500,000 full-motion FAA-certified platforms.

Again, misleading and tantamont to false advertising. In any case, this is not a forum for discussion of X-Plane. Kindly drop the subject here.

[RYR738 9]

That is not only a red-herring, it is also misleading. The X-Plane software (in fact no software no matter who made it!) is not "certified," as the linked article makes perfectly clear. Furthermore, Redbird (and a number of other companies) has had a fully certified, full-motion training device using FSX for its core software for many years already.In fact, it was the very existence of these certified similators (that were technically in violation of Microsoft's EULA for FSX) that moved MS to spin off FSX into the original ESP product, which has now been licensed to Lockheed-Martin and their Prepar3D product.Again, misleading and tantamont to false advertising. In any case, this is not a forum for discussion of X-Plane. Kindly drop the subject here.

Good explanation Bill.I am an ongoing beta tester for CAE's Tropos 6000 level-d simulator software and it comes with less than 30 airports and 1 plane.It only costs 245,000 dollars and does not look as good as Flight.Fred.

[Attila 2]

What Flight Manuals come with FSX?

FSX has an entire Learning Center and as I recall each default plane has v-speeds and other data available on the kneepad, accessible during flight.

[John the Pilot 0]

Is Flight a Simulator?Can you adjust the yoke sensitivity/null zone to more closely match the aircraft?Can you install and operate a trim wheel to work like the aircraft?Can you setup and use toe brakes like the aircraft? Is there as much support for flying with a Saitek cockpit as flying with a mouse or X-box controller?I found the answers to all these questions to be NO. Granted, there are complex workarounds for some of these requiring manually editing some of Flight's system files.But my point is that this reveals that Microsoft does NOT view this product as a simulator. Otherwise after 3 years of development and a full beta test cycle they would support these basic simulator features.

[rtodepart 761]

from xplane site:However, the software available for about $80 at X-Plane.com is almost identical what is found in the $500,000 full-motion FAA-certified platforms.

well lets get out of the topic on flight and go back to FSX . what is FSX when you put Flight deck solutions hardware and FSX together ???? its pretty close to those 500.000 level D sim that you mention in your post . how do i know?? because i used plenty of times before , i even own some of the flight deck solutions hardware but dont have the space to go full setup yet and thats also the reason for the server setup i use that you see in my signature . I hope at one point i can use all of the hardware with Flight instead .

[Arwen 289]

Larry, Flight was rushed out the door, because some MS suit apparently decided that Flight had to be released on Feb 29th. The beta test cycle ended way before it should have. The last built that the beta testers saw had 759 bugs that were fixed in the release version. And when you fix THAT many bugs, you are bound to create some new ones. The button and axis assignments were expanded quite a bit in the release version . . . not enough yet, but the Flight Team put in a pretty good effort, considering that they were not give much time to wrap the release version up. BTW: The first bug that I filed a report on was the over-sensitivity of joystick controls (the need to have a non-linear response curve, which the user could adjust).

[JonP01 104]

Is Flight a Simulator?Can you adjust the yoke sensitivity/null zone to more closely match the aircraft?Can you install and operate a trim wheel to work like the aircraft?Can you setup and use toe brakes like the aircraft? Is there as much support for flying with a Saitek cockpit as flying with a mouse or X-box controller?I found the answers to all these questions to be NO. Granted, there are complex workarounds for some of these requiring manually editing some of Flight's system files.But my point is that this reveals that Microsoft does NOT view this product as a simulator. Otherwise after 3 years of development and a full beta test cycle they would support these basic simulator features.

I agree with the features which are currently lacking, however remember that this is the first release. It is acknowledged to have issues (for example, toe brakes should be working next release), plus we do not know exactly what enhancements are coming in the future.Whilst three years might sound like a long time, in software development terms - especially complex software such as this - I don't really feel that it is. Look at Cliffs of Dover, for example. How many years was that in development before release? And there is major re-work going on with that sim. Rise of Flight too is far more sophisticated now than it was upon release and it was in development for a few years as well.Whilst one might want to argue that MS had the advantage of building off legacy software, my feeling is that this can sometimes be as much as a liability as an asset, because it can and does involve major re-work, plus a comprehensive understanding of the existing code. It is always very difficult to substantially re-write code and not always that much quicker than writing new code from scratch.In acknowledging the disappointments, we should look at the positives that three years of development have brought as well. I think it is very hard to argue against this game having a lot of potential - the arguments are more along the line of will these things happen or not - not that they are unachievable.

[Attila 2]

Larry, Flight was rushed out the door, because some MS suit apparently decided that Flight had to be released on Feb 29th. The beta test cycle ended way before it should have. The last built that the beta testers saw had 759 bugs that were fixed in the release version. And when you fix THAT many bugs, you are bound to create some new ones. The button and axis assignments were expanded quite a bit in the release version . . . not enough yet, but the Flight Team put in a pretty good effort, considering that they were not give much time to wrap the release version up. BTW: The first bug that I filed a report on was the over-sensitivity of joystick controls (the need to have a non-linear response curve, which the user could adjust).

While I agree with you on the rushed job, Larry makes the point that having some of the omissions after years of development is telling as to what MS thinks of Flight. Ex: Toe brakes never tested and no entries for prop pitch and mixture. I doubt that much testing was done even with a joystick, because had they done that, there would be some sort of sensitivity adjustment for them.Also interesting to note that the beta testers all seemed to have been flight sim enthusiasts already and immediately zeroed in on the above omissions and many others. Note that these are not bugs. No one ever thought of them or it was not deemed important enough, even though it would have taken just a few minutes to make the additions to a few already-existing files.

[JonP01 104]

and ATIS

Yes please! I hope this comes soon. Unless I am missing something, the only way to know what runway to use is to do a flyover (at an International airport lol). Come to think of it, again - unless I am missing something, I would really love to know the wind speed and direction before I even hit the button to start a free flight. Doe anyone else have the problem of starting on the wrong runway and then having to use the runway for taxiing to the other end of it, or is there some function I haven't seen yet?

Larry makes the point that having some of the omissions after years of development is telling as to what MS thinks of Flight

I truly do not think the state of the product as it is today is a reflection of what MS thinks of it.And it certainly does not reflect what MS actually say about it publically, since they have always said it would have broad appeal from raw beginners to existing enthusiasts. As someone who developed software for many years, I can attest there is almost always a gap between what you want your product to be and what time and money allows it to be. The beauty of the flight model is that it allows for continued upgrading, like iRacing and Rise of Flight for example. Microsoft have spent three years on this and need to start bringing in revenue to allow the product to survive and continue to expand. I don't begrudge the current state that it is in, since I have seen much worse with other products that have turned out extremely well given sufficient time.

[n4gix 4,968]

While I agree with you on the rushed job, Larry makes the point that having some of the omissions after years of development is telling as to what MS thinks of Flight. Ex: Toe brakes never tested and no entries for prop pitch and mixture.

Both prop pitch axis and mixture axis were added in time for the release. Toe-brakes was not. It's on the list of things to add for the next update cycle.

[Attila 2]

Both prop pitch axis and mixture axis were added in time for the release. Toe-brakes was not. It's on the list of things to add for the next update cycle.

I know this and you know I know this. The point was that it was missing as of two months before release and until it was pointed out to MS by people who have been using MSFS for years. Had you been part of the development team or I, I think neither of these features would have been omitted as of January.