J. Howard Joshua Howard Interview with AVSIM

[Arwen 289]

I see that the staff has done quite well eradicating those with a dissenting opinion; it's just not worth the a*s-pain to participate anymore. You can put one in the "W" column, I guess.

Excuse me, but those with dissenting opinions on Flight have not been "eradicated" . . . If that were true, I would have to ban myself.What has not been tolerated is just the outright MS/Flight hate posts.

[flashkick 0]

the way I look at it, who is really interested in aviation? A lot of people, but the people that will play the game now are those just like us that, when we first started out, just liked flying around and looking at scenery. But then that grew tiresome, and then we wanted more out of the game, and wanted to do more, we wanted a realistic experience. So how did we go about doing that? We started buying DLC. Now with the Flight has been going, it's been introducing the game a little better by giving that first time user a fun experience. As time goes on, that first time user will get bored and want more out of the game. Microsoft in my mind will see this, and start expanding their horizons and start appealing to us, the hard core simmer. I know it's a disappointment having to wait even longer, but I truly believe we will get the game we have always wanted. Granted it won't be any time soon, but I think it will happen.Keep high hopes! Enjoy the game for now, our day will come :)

[MarkRey 16]

..."Man, I wish I could fly, but its so complicated and expensive".There is a market out there. Just because its not what YOU want does not mean its not wanted.

You're putting thoughts in my head, I never said it's not wanted, I started by simply saying it's clearly not for ME, and that you were misrepresenting 'simmers' as one homogenous blob that loves droning on in 747s.And all those people out there that long to fly - how long do you think their interest will be held by FLIGHT before the truly interested want more? Do you think that FLIGHT will evolve with them? Of course not - imho it will always be a 'gateway' for the most casual of the casually interested, and that's perfectly FINE. It is and will always be a flying game for the masses, anything more would be...Flight Simulator.

[RichLP 32]

It was never a case of what was said; it was the case of HOW it was said. If you throughly anger the people you're trying to communicate with by using vulgar, insulting, demeaning language, don't expect them to bother listening to your arguments......no matter how valid they might be.

ESPECIALLY when the comment is prefaced by "I refuse to download and try it because..."

[Gibbage 199]

You're putting thoughts in my head, I never said it's not wanted, I started by simply saying it's clearly not for ME, and that you were misrepresenting 'simmers' as one homogenous blob that loves droning on in 747s.And all those people out there that long to fly - how long do you think their interest will be held by FLIGHT before the truly interested want more? Do you think that FLIGHT will evolve with them? Of course not - imho it will always be a 'gateway' for the most casual of the casually interested, and that's perfectly FINE. It is and will always be a flying game for the masses, anything more would be...Flight Simulator.

I have said that myself many many times. That the new user will out-grow Flights training wheels and want more. MS can offer it, or they will addopt XP or FSX. The problem is XP and FSX both have had a learning curv of a brick wall, scaring away a lot of potential customers. I dont want Flight to stay "simple" and GA only. I want it to advance with its customers. But my point is, there are a lot of people who are interested in flying, but not interested or cant afford to learn a complex sim or real flying lessons. Thats the true target market for Flight, and im fine with that!

[enamel 4]

ESPECIALLY when the comment is prefaced by "I refuse to download and try it because..."

Or my favorite is: "I downloaded and played with it for 10 minutes and then uninstalled."All I can think is "Buddy, if all you flew is the Icon, you haven't seen NOTHIN yet."

[flashkick 0]

You're putting thoughts in my head, I never said it's not wanted, I started by simply saying it's clearly not for ME, and that you were misrepresenting 'simmers' as one homogenous blob that loves droning on in 747s.And all those people out there that long to fly - how long do you think their interest will be held by FLIGHT before the truly interested want more? Do you think that FLIGHT will evolve with them? Of course not - imho it will always be a 'gateway' for the most casual of the casually interested, and that's perfectly FINE. It is and will always be a flying game for the masses, anything more would be...Flight Simulator.

Yes but people will get bored of just casually flying. There is only so many people that are interested in aviation. A certain time will come when they've attracted most of the people they've wanted, but then those people will want to actually shoot ILS/VOR/NDB etc approaches. They will want to talk to ATC in a realistic matter.Just think the first time you played Flight simulator, were you using it's full functionality? I'm guessing not. If I was playing any sort of flying game for the first time (I'm comparing it to my first time) I would love Flight.

I want it to advance with its customers.

Well they're interested in what the mass audience wants, and when they see that the mass audience wants a more realistic experience (whatever that may be) Microsoft will start doing things that will make our hard core simming dreams come true.

[Arwen 289]

Please.I don't know how you can honestly call yourself a dissenter; you got an award for being "...one of the most dedicated and persevering Beta Testers...in spite of overwhelming harassment and juvenile treatment from others."

I wrote (and you originally wrote) "those with dissenting opinions" . . . which I HAVE had . . . rather often. Both here and on the Beta discussion forum. There's a HUGE difference between giving a dissenting opinion, and being a dissenter.

Frankly, I'm stunned that given your repeated violation of the Microsoft NDA has actually been rewarded. And yes, Virginia, talking about the internal processes, procedures, conversations, content, and update schedules most certainly was a violation of the agreement, even if those in charge looked the other way.

I did not break my NDA. Do you even know what the NDA actually stated? I have an Associates degree in Paralegal and a BS in Legal Studies . . . I took contract law. And I had permission to post some specifics here, during the beta . . . so don't accuse someone of breaking a NDA, when you don't even have all the information. The Flight Team certainly wouldn't have given me ALL the DLC for being a beta tester if I broke my NDA . . . and, yes, they do read these forums.

Clearly, there is no winning here. It's obvious that the "moderation" had the desired intent: dissenters have been effectively disincentivized from posting. Why try to claim otherwise? You wanted the "haters" to be gone, and now, largely, they are. If you are genuinely unable to see that the moderation since Flight's release has driven those with dissenting opinions away, then nothing I can say will convince you otherwise.

If you are here just to spread hate, then no, there is no winning for you. I suggest you go elsewhere, as hate and personal attacks (like the one in your previous post) will not be tolerated.

[RichLP 32]

Frankly, I'm stunned that given your repeated violation of the Microsoft NDA has actually been rewarded. And yes, Virginia, talking about the internal processes, procedures, conversations, content, and update schedules most certainly was a violation of the agreement, even if those in charge looked the other way.

I believe the NDA ended when Flight was released...

[bugbee 26]

Thank to tom for the interview and trying to find out more.I guess I'm starting to get it a little, maybe africa after alaska, (hippo-hopping or whatever). taking your mind off simulationyour imagination can go anywhere with flight, easy multiplayer sounds like its going to work out ok.Ken

[drumsonly2002 3]

The questions were excellent, and skillfully asked. The replies a bit vague, but enough of the cat was let out of the bag to see what it looks like. A quality interview, very well done. For a VFR, short hop type flyer Flight looks promising. When they add helicopters I will try it, and from what I have seen so far most likely enjoy it, pending helo flight model. I am not big on long fights so very encouraged with the information attained via interview. Put a excellent helicopter in Flight and I think it will be a lot of fun for rotor heads.

[ahuimanu 50]

From my read, Joshua Howard clearly:

• Is not a simmer and seems to actually hold simmers in contempt
• Has low respect and/or command of this product's legacy
• Has made calculated move against the previous evolutionary trend of the legacy (more sophistication, not less)
• Has disdain for a market segment that would have VORACIOUSLY consumed ALL of the high-end DLC he could have mustered (I've spent $$$$ on FSX add-ons)
• Has no real plan for the product, short of "we'll play it by ear."
• At his proposed rate, won't even come close to the output that the 3PD (freeware and payware) has developed in 6 years with FSX.
• Will keep Flight on an extended beta, with no roadmap, hoping to waver to and fro with the tides of sentiment and whimsy
• Will never use his own studio to model the world
• Thinks that the high-end add-on market is for silly people who do Long Haul, etc.

In any case, I appreciate that AVSIM has asked good questions and I do appreciate that Josh was forthright on at least some issues. I wouldn't say that Josh's team is building their ship on the open sea, as the ship is an overhauled FSX engine. However, he is renovating on the open seas and plans to just sail about.It is clear that closely monitoring a wide range of participants will likely create a lowest-common-denominator majority for Flight. I appreciate that AVSIM's questions tackled the potential for the "tyranny of the majority," but Josh has made a bold move by eschewing the past in favor of breadth (I see no real opening in his scheme for the "depth" he also claims to want). Tom's opening salvo in December was the shot that destabilized me, and this is the final blow.Of course, it is early days, but I see no light for a simmer in this approach. As such, I can only hope for the following:1) The title is forked into a "Pro" version where, for a princely sum, we get the whole enchilada. Music production software uses this model to great effect. I can accept that the goodies I used to get for $80 will likely set me back 4-5 times that much in a "Pro" version. Which leads me to....2) Prepar3D. I hope that the grip on this is loosened such that it become the bastion for the disenfranchised "legacy" simmer to continue to ride the wave.I have likely burned bridges as I've writhed in mourning pain since December, but that has run its course.This is a nail in my coffin and I now abandon all hope for Flight for anything that the entertainment title that it is and will be. Once I had Flight Assignment ATP and I loved that better than Flight Simulator at the time (I DID want to do Long Haul). FS ATP disappeared and Flight Simulator 98 began a process, culminating in FSX, where by heavy iron desires were handsomely met. Now, my fertile fields are fallow, and Flight is destined to be a "low and slow, Sunday flier affair."My venom and vitriol has alienated many and has met with little sympathy. There is a time for dinosaurs to pass and this is it. Flight will not, in any foreseeable future, accommodate my tastes and that's how she goes.Many of you will enjoy Flight and it is not my place to assail this. Joshua's position is clear and I will credit him with the courage to follow his conventions. I don't think there will be a middle ground for his path: he will either heroically re-envision the title to the acclaim of all, or, this experiment will crash and burn and become the "Windows ME" of the legacy. Time will tell.Tom recently blogged about the boycott of FS2000 when it was determined that the franchise had taken a wrong turn, but Flight is something different. Flight has galvanized many simmers in a way that is actually surprising to me, but it really is moot.In December, I did share, to a degree, the "let's support Flight, and it might evolve..." Today, I become a "luddite" of the sort I mocked for not moving to FSX - I will not progress any further with the franchise. Hawaii was my first and last DLC purchase as I would rather channel my funds towards FSX, Prepar3D, or X-Plane. It doesn't sound like Josh wants, needs, or expects my "hardcore simmer" money anyhow.Flight will be a fun VFR flying game and it is nice that this crowd will get an exclusive - do enjoy.

[MarkRey 16]

Well they're interested in what the mass audience wants, and when they see that the mass audience wants a more realistic experience (whatever that may be) Microsoft will start doing things that will make our hard core simming dreams come true.

I doubt that, it is diametrically opposite to their new 'ecosystem' - Flight will ALWAYS target the new casual user, while hoping to hold the interest of the more seasoned simply with new DLC content, probably scenery for the most part.And that's fine.

[Stoli151 6]

Good job on the interview. Not what I wanted to hear from MS however. It did make up my mind for me as to whether I will invest into Xplane10 or Flight. Since I am glad now that I did not spend any money on Flight, you can tell which one I will spend my money on. My advice to anyone else that sees this product not going the way they want is to stop spending money on it. If enough people take this attitude MS will notice. The audience they are targeting will get bored of this in a year or less and move on. That's when they'll have to come back to hard core simmers to keep it going just like before. When and IF Flight ever becomes the product I want, I will spend money for it then.

[tf51d 284]

Tom this was the best and most informative in terms as the intended direction MS has for Flight I have read yet! Great Job!! Unfortunately it confirms what many of the Hardcore simmers have feared. There are no plans to expand Flight to satisfy this community! No whole world coverage, no interest in AI or ATC, no interest in long distance flight. The only thing they want to do is expand things they think the wider audience of gamers want, like Missions and challenges, locking out future advancement in the game until levels or mission completion are met. The only simming quality this game has is the plane flys, devoid of everything that makes up a real word flying experience. For what it is it is good. Essentially though it's nothing except for the better default ground scenery (still not as good as what 3rd party like Orbx offers) that FSX can do now. I do think it will initially draw in gamers, but unless they make things more interesting then chasing golden coins or Aerocaches that appeal will wear thin after awhile. Any hope that people had that some how MS was going to turn this ultimately into FSXI by adding ATC, AI real time weather, flightplans, whole world coverage, etc... I think this interview has put to rest, it isn't going to happen! Flight is what it is, you either like it or you don't, For me FSX does everything Flight does and more, so it's redundant for me!!